Questions for All Bata Players - Bata Questions

[pcastag]

I've seen people presented to anya before for the first time. Here in Houston it is difficult, sometimes people wait for many months to be presented. However, since I was there, and it was a legitimate tambor, ( totico's group was playing) I can assume that the presentation of the Iyawo to anya is a public ceremony. Many people here will have guiros while they are being initiated due to the cost of flying in drummers and akpons from miami, NY, or LA. as there are no bataleros here in Houston ,or at least no one who has fundamento.My understanding is that the Iyawo must be ceremonaily presented to Anya before being able to dance in a fundamento ceremony. This is a bit different from the santeros who have already been initiated presenting themselves to the drum during the oru cantado.
PC



Edited By pcastag on 1144903722

[Facundo]

Not Facundo, you were talking about the presentation of the Iyawo/head and made a reference of communicating with Olofi about a new head,(that is done inside the room and in private)...The other Bembe which is done in front of everybody is a celebration of a new live after the Iyawo coming form the 'reclusion' and it is for 'WHATEVER" Oricha which want to come and participate...And THAT IS THE CEREMONY WHICH IS DONE IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY...That rule that Iyawos are only presented to drums one time is not correct.....I said before if you have not witnessed something that doesn't mean that it is not done...It is all related to the reason for which the person is coming to do Ocha which is different for many people. I guest both ceremonies are clear now,your brother Dr. Zaragemca

Doc,
Yes, I did make reference to the drums communicating to Olofi that a new head has been crowned and I stand by that. This is directly related to the special significance of Anya and the reason that all Olorisha are mandated to be presented to Anya. For the benefit of all that have an interest in bata I will explain. There are a host of protocols associated with Anya and what follows is just a few. Anya, as mentioned before, is an Orisha. Its' "magical voice", for want of a better term, has the abiltiy to speak directly to the Orisha, Egun and Olofi in a way that goes beyond the human voice. For this reason, it is one of the highest offerings that one can make to the Orisha. This fact is even reflected in odu (the signs in divination). During the presentation the Iyawos head is presented to Anya to allert Olofi that a new head has been crowned and that their entrance as an Olorisha are completed. This is very well reflected in the Havana style presentations and can be heard in the song announcing the Iyawo. Akpon -"Iyawo okuawo - The Iyawo is now complete, meaning the rites of installing the secret or mystery are finished. This presentation "only happens one time". After an Olorisha has been presented to Anya, that person can attend any bembe in which Anya is being played and have Anya salute their crowned Orisha at the bembe. The person will prostrate in front of the drums and touch their head to each drum. Note, this act is not an additonal presentation. It is a mutual greeting between the Olorisha and Anya. It should also be noted that Anya is also played at the funeral rites of Olorisha. However, it the Olorisha was never presented to Anya in life, Anya can not be played at that persons funeral or other rites of Egun for that person.

Now Doc, granted each person makes Ocha for different reasons but there are ceremonies that are only done one time. Please explain and discribe how and why an Olorisha would be prensented to Anya more than once? My info on this comes from being mentored by a number of elder Olorisha, Babalawos and Olubata.

Facundo

[zaragemca]

Facundo we don't have to allert Olofi of anything,his aware of all the happening before it happened,the cnly mentioning of him is to acknowledge him as the supreme authority in Yorubas affair,and request his blessing,this is getting to the point where it doesn't has any musical value and I couldn't communicate some affairs like this..facundo I couldn't give detail in the different aspects of proceding according to why the person is coming to Ocha, I would be crossoving my jurisdiction to talk those affairs in public,..Pcastag,thanks for you intervantion brother. Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1144962578

[Facundo]

Facundo we don't have to allert Olofi of anything,his aware of all the happening before it happened,the cnly mentioning of him is to acknowledge him as the supreme authority in Yorubas affair,and request his blessing,this is getting to the point where it doesn't has any musical value and I couldn't communicate some affairs like this..facundo I couldn't give detail in the different aspects of proceding according to why the person is coming to Ocha, I would be crossoving my jurisdiction to talk those affairs in public,..Pcastag,thanks for you intervantion brother. Dr. Zaragemca

Doc Z,

It is now more than obvious that you do not know the very basic difference between Iyawos being presented to Anya and Olorisha saluting Anya. That speaks directly to the vacuum of knowledge you have on this subject and how unqualified you are to comment on the meaning of these ceremonies. Virtually every comment you have made on Anya in this thread have been absolutely wrong. I'm done.

Facundo

[JohnnyConga]

I must say I think there is a problem from the mentality of the "past" versus" the "future" here and other places.... The Bata drums have "evolved" around the world now, and is open to anybody willing to learn. "Secrets" of the drum are no longer secret and neither are most of the ceremonies. Like Facundo said this is 2006, not 1966.....BTW in 1966 you couldnt find a OluBata to teach you, unless you were in "the religion", and that has all changed now.....Zaragemca , I think it's time u step into the 21st century mi hermano....con paz..."JC" Johnny Conga....

[OLSONGO]

Vaya... me gusta la discusion sea como sea se aprende.
To pu it in laymans terms, I Think that in religion something you should not mess with is the word, and anything around it is decor.
And that can change, becuse man always has had his ways to change things, how many versions of the Bible exist?
But as long as the core of the purpose is not lost , then be it.

Amor, Paz Y rumba

OLSONGO

[Facundo]

I must say I think there is a problem from the mentality of the "past" versus" the "future" here and other places.... The Bata drums have "evolved" around the world now, and is open to anybody willing to learn. "Secrets" of the drum are no longer secret and neither are most of the ceremonies. Like Facundo said this is 2006, not 1966.....BTW in 1966 you couldnt find a OluBata to teach you, unless you were in "the religion", and that has all changed now.....Zaragemca , I think it's time u step into the 21st century mi hermano....con paz..."JC" Johnny Conga....

JC, I think you intended your post for the other discussion on bata. I am not the one who said this is 06 and not 66. Click on congaboard and you will see both places that have bata discussions. Facundo

[davidpenalosa]

Right, that was me who had the "66 vs 06" quip over in the chachalokuafun thread. No biggie.
-David