Bata Photo - Okilakpa Bata Group Photo

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Postby ralph » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:51 pm

OBAKOSODIDE wrote:Hello board,

I have only been following this forum for just a lil while. I have particularly been following the Bata threads and dr. Z's posts. I asked aldama who were the tamboleros in the photos in this thread and the other thread.

He states that in the photo shown in this thread is Jesus on okonkolo, Pablo on Iya and Aquedo Morales Elbembon on itotele.

In the other photo on the other thread
Standing:
Pablo and a family member of Nicolai Angarica (whose name he does not recall).
sitting on okonkolo is trinidad; sitting on iya is Nasako;
sitting on itotele is Giraldo Rodriquez.

I hope my small input helps clear up who is actually in the photos and call a spade a spade.

peace, kosodide

Thank you for the info OBAKOSIDIDE

It helps to have insight from someone like Carlos Aldama...a true "living" legend...i'd like to see where the thread goes from here...

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Postby Facundo » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:54 pm

OBAKOSODIDE wrote:Hello board,

I have only been following this forum for just a lil while. I have particularly been following the Bata threads and dr. Z's posts. I asked aldama who were the tamboleros in the photos in this thread and the other thread.

He states that in the photo shown in this thread is Jesus on okonkolo, Pablo on Iya and Aquedo Morales Elbembon on itotele.

In the other photo on the other thread
Standing:
Pablo and a family member of Nicolai Angarica (whose name he does not recall).
sitting on okonkolo is trinidad; sitting on iya is Nasako;
sitting on itotele is Giraldo Rodriquez.

I hope my small input helps clear up who is actually in the photos and call a spade a spade.

peace, kosodide

Obakosodide,

Thanks for making that effort. Aldama confirms exactly what I said!
So once again:
Doc Z,
With that long list of name dropping - Your point was what?

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Postby 71-1165087793 » Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:41 pm

I have to log in with my name Gerry,Aldama could not make any confirmation of something which is not true and I give all the detail in relation of each one in the foto of Ernesto Torriente, 'Chacha' Vega,Trinidad Torregosa,Raul Diaz,and Girard Rodriguez. The same than the rest of the pictures which I had identified since the time that Tamborica broght the first picture to this forum..And I'm coming from Cuba also and been in this stuff for long time like any other cuban which are in this subject....Also when I said something I give the details in relation to the pictures,notbody have come to debate with me with details to show anything different,(and that's what count)....If somebody said that they don't recall names,(that's to bad,..I do recall and mention names,times,and places), I cann't do better than that. To finish I could said with all knowledge that Chacha/Vega,Raul Diaz,Girardo Rodriguez,and Trinidad Torregosa,(DO NOT BELONG TO NICOLAS ANGARICA FAMILY)..so I don't know from where that idea is coming from.Thanks Dr. Zaragemca



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Postby OBAKOSODIDE » Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:46 am

Hi Z,

That is fine u can stand on that... but aldama stands on the shoulders of jesus perez, his teacher and godfather in osha. If you are a "true" drummer.. and claim to have been around during that time.... aldama would know you. please give me your name or your drummer name.. something.. how about even a photo - u can even send it privately to me. Cause based on your posts- you aint looking so good now... you sound like one of them arrogant cuban brothas- whose only claim to fame is that they are "cuban." ... that is so sad.




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From the drum to Olofi's ears...gracias para aña
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Postby ABAKUA » Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:21 am

Welcome to the forum OBAKOSODIDE, in very little time here, you have identified what Z is all about.
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Postby Dr. » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:30 pm

Obakosodide,you are the one which need to identify yourself..people which have been in this forum,(before Abakua came here), know who I'm and my biography is there in this forum and many other places,(but to know,or to have knowledge about this subject people do not even have to be percussionists),there are a lot of people in Cuba with know the lineage of the Yoruba in Cuba and the lineage of the bataleros and have never played anything....if somebody knows about this subject,it is going to show regardless...Somebody its getting into the side and changing my login name and password....Since the very first time he came here I already identified Abakua ,(as a hired gun against me), so I'm not expecting anything less from him.Dr. Zaragemca



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Postby ralph » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:18 pm

Dr. wrote:Obakosodide,you are the one which need to identify yourself..people which have been in this forum,(before Abakua came here), know who I'm and my biography is there in this forum and many other places,(but to know,or to have knowledge about this subject people do not even have to be percussionists),there are a lot of people in Cuba with know the lineage of the Yoruba in Cuba and the lineage of the bataleros and have never played anything....if somebody knows about this subject,it is going to show regardless...Somebody its getting into the side and changing my login name and password....Since the very first time he came here I already identified Abakua ,(as a hired gun against me), so I'm not expecting anything less from him.Dr. Zaragemca

I think its safe to say that at this point, it has become less intuitive and more personal...i think the vast majority of the congaplace population would agree that if Carlos Aldama says a photo is what it is, then it is what it is...a drummer who was and (probably still is?) a member of the Conjunto Folklorico Nacional, would know more than just a little about the history of the music and drummers that played the music...the issue is not about Abakua, it is just Dr. Z's failure to provide any concrete evidence (you always refer to a self created bio of yourself, which is lost in obscurity at this point), likewise if Carlos Aldama wasn't who he is, than we would suspect his info as well, but alas his credential on and off wax speak for themselves, the tambolero, rumbero community is not that big, especially when talking about the pioneers so YOU would be known Zaragemca, even if you don't play bata, and were just a historian...you would be known, why don't you give us your name so Obakosodide can check w/ Aldama? If not you will never be taken seriously, not that you are now, but worse still....
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Postby Dr. » Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:27 pm

Brother Ralph listen to me,I haven't seen Carlos saying anything,..somebody is using his name in this subject....but I have in my blood both lineage, Matanzas and Habana,..I know the lineage of the Habana /bataleros and the lineage of the Matanzas/bataleros..the lineage of the Iyalosas from Matanzas and the lineage of the Iyalosas from Habana,and as I said before that I have been in Matanzas several times and many other places with my mother and later myself when I was playing around Cuba, I know the lineage of Nicolas Valetin Angarica,(both in Ocha and in the bataleros)...again,since the first time that somebody show the first picture in this forum,(Tamboricua),I have never been confused in anything...I also know the lineage of bongoceros and congeros,(who got what from whom,etc), and I have create and article about this which is there..I didn't come into this with a parachute..they are my ancestors and I know my stuff....If anybody wanted to ask me a question in relation to my biography they have been free to do it long time ago...I'm not hiding from anybody and I have a lot of people,again a lot of people which have observed me performing around,so at this point that is an old stuff. my articles about Afrocuban percussion,Jazz,Rock,Reggae,Recording and music in general have been already been praised by a lot teachers and percussionists and professional people in this business.Dr. Zaragemca



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Postby OBAKOSODIDE » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:59 pm

Z...

Like I said... what is your name and how about a photo?
From the drum to Olofi's ears...gracias para aña
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Postby ABAKUA » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:40 am

His name is Gerry Carrillo. Seen in red shirt/hat, far right of pic.

Image



Now,

Zara, you have an account, use it rather than continuous creation of new accounts.
This latest one will also be deleted now.

Account 1 - username "zaragemca" (with an 'm') - status: 5 warnings and banned.

Account 2 - "zaragenca" (with an 'n') - status: sitting on 4 warnings, one more and you are gone permanantly. It is by the good grace of the site's creator that you were permitted to return under a second account. There is a green light for banning you permanantly should you keep up your arrogance and failure to accept any opinion/fact other than your own. Even when proven wrong you still claim you are right.

Account 3 - "Gerry" - status: deleted and banned. You already have an account, use it.

Account 4 - "Dr." status: deleted and banned. You already have an account, use it.

You have less and less credibility on here by the day, you display complete arrogance continuously and you are not taken seriously, just like on the countless amounts of forums you frequent.
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Postby zaragenca » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:05 pm

First of all to be fair,thank you for the posting the foto Abakua..but again I came back up what I said...you cann't back up what you said about me.Dr. Zaragemca
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Postby davidpenalosa » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:25 pm

Dear Moderators,
I would think that this forum could handle the musings of one delusional member. Z's (he's not a dr.) is a one-trick-pony: "I know stuff you don't because my anscestors told me stuff you don't know." And, of course he's wrong most of the time! Still, as long as he doesn't personally insult someone, what's the harm?
-david




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Postby Facundo » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:48 pm

Z,

One final comment before leaving this topic alone:
I can't speak for everyone in this forum following this discussion. However, I think it is safe to say that most of us put more stock in Ortiz, Bascom and Aldama's word than someone who backs up their claims by noting "dents in the forehead" and tooting their own horn as proof of authenticity. Your signature: "zaragenca
Holder of all secrets, master of all knowledge and never wrong because Im Cuban" is unbelievably arogant and absurd. An old refrane says " In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king" Clearly you have one eye. However, this forum Is Not the land of the blind.

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Postby OBAKOSODIDE » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:53 pm

Hi,

Nope......never heard of him or saw him before. ( that being Z)

Just an interesting note.. "Z" you look like you are probably no older than 50.. How long have you been in this country???
From the drum to Olofi's ears...gracias para aña
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Postby zaragenca » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:47 pm

Welcome David,Facundo as I said before many times, show me where is the subject where I'm wrong,(as I do with my debates),...arrogance?.You people should be working inside a Film/Studio,and later talk to me about what is arrogance...To Obakosodide of course there are thousands of people which might not know about me and thousands which do know,(there is nothing wrong with that),but I'm not responding to any more personal questions to you, untill you respond to my question,who are you?.Dr. Zaragemca
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