Jesus Perez - okonkolo? - historical question

[ralph]

***sorry title should read Julito Collazo- okonkolo?***
Here's a question that came up. In US around the 60's existed a couple of percussionists (from Cuba) that we can call the pilars of bata in the USA. Francisco Aguabella in the west and Julito Collazo in the east (there are others but we'll focus on these two)...In those times if you wanted to learn bata resources were scarce, I know because i talked to many a tambolero who came up in NYC at that time and they reiterate that it was very difficult finding someone that would/could actually teach those rhythms...I also recall reading that Julito was primarily an okonkolonero and while i am not saying he could not play all three drums proficiently, its probably correct to assume that he contributed more to the guiro/bembe aspect, who did the NY cats learn from at this time? Julito Collazo? Frankie Malabe? John Amira? Gene Golden?....Johnny others can you shed some light on the subject? We know that once the Mariel boatlift happened resources became plentiful on both coasts...what about on the west coast, who was Francisco teaching? I imagine there were only a very select few individuals getting lessons from him at the time as well.



Edited By ralph on 1188402524

[JohnnyConga]

Here is what I know...Julito Collazo was "the man" for Bata in NYC in the 60's, but he wouldnt teach anybody if they weren't in the "religion"...Santeria....I never met John Amira or Frankie Malabe....as far as I know Frankie wasnt a batalero or in the religion ...John Amira's background I do believe came from Julito....also Gene Golden, Steve Berrios and a few others studied with Julito, once in the religion, and a lot of cats got into it for just that reason...I once saw Fransisco Julito and Steve play for an Ocha party once in Los Angeles...Fransisco on Iya Julito on Itotele and Steve on Okonkolo...well Mike Spiro studied with Fransisco as far as I know on the west coast along with Harold Muniz and a few others...also teaching Bata on the west coast is Carlos Aldama.....and in Miami Ezekiel Torres....I also studied Bata in Miami with Lazaro Alfonso the brother to el 5 tumbadoras "EL Nino" from Irakere.....I was in his folklore group "Ogordo"....back in the 90's.....any other questions?....at your service...."JC" Johnny Conga....

[ralph]

I also studied Bata in Miami with Lazaro Alfonso the brother to el 5 tumbadoras "EL Nino" from Irakere.....I was in his folklore group "Ogordo"....back in the 90's.....any other questions?....at your service...."JC" Johnny Conga....

this is getting off topic but didn't "El Niño" set himself on fire? What was behind that? Was it just a random act?

Yeah I would lump certain tamboleros in certain groups
Okilakpa
1..Jesus Perez, Trinidad Torregosa, Ramiro, etc...
2. Francisco Aguabella, Julito, Aldama, Pancho Q
etc.....

[davidpenalosa]

In the early 60's before Julito taught bata to the NYC cats, people like Markus Gordon, John Amria, John "Windcloud" Montalvo and Gene Golden learned by watching Julito play, listened to "Afro Tambores Bata" and studied the transcriptions in the Ortiz book. Some of them also traveled to Cuba in 1962 (I think that's the year) via Czechoslovakia with a Leftist group. As soon as they got off the plane, they ditched the politicos and went looking for bata and rumba!

There's an interesting article about the "Afro Tambores Bata" LP written by Thomas Altman:

www.ochemusic.de/artgiro.htm

My quoted paragraphs originally appeared in this forum.
-David

[davidpenalosa]

Ralph,
I forgot to answer your question about who was teaching bata on the west coast. Before 1980, Markus Gordon taught bata here. Markus brought the drums to San Francisco from NYC and he was my first bata teacher. My understanding is that Francisco Aguabella had stopped playing bata during this time. There were no Cuban bata teachers on the west coast prior to 1980. Some of the local players included Harold Muniz, Tobaji and Bill Summers.

In 1980 Alfredo (can’t remember his last name darn it!) arrived from Cuba. He initiated the SF drummers and filled in their gaps of bata knowledge. He then moved to NYC, where he became Puntilla’s main rival.

In ’80 or ’81, at a SF concert featuring Orquesta Batachanga, that group’s folkloric component Tambocuba performed the entire oru igbodu as they had learned it from Alfredo. Harold Muniz played iya, Mike Spiro: itotele and John Santos: okonkolo.

Francisco Aguabella was at that concert and afterwards he invited Harold and John to join him in playing bata. Later, Spiro replaced Santos in Aguabella’s bata battery. That group played together for several years, performing for ceremonies, concerts and recordings. However, Francisco did not “teach” per sé. He did not give “lessons”.

In the late 80’s there were three consecutive annual workshops held just over the border in Tijuana. This gave many California drummers like as myself, direct access to Cuban bata masters such as Mario Jauregui, Regino Jimenez and Bolaños. The Cubans also taught women drummers like Carolyn Brandy. Information on the bata was no longer scarce. I in fact, felt overwhelmed with the amount of information now available to me. Also during this time, many SF Bay Area drummers were traveling to Cuba. By the early 90’s there were many bata drummers on the west coast.

Francisco Aguabella now formally teaches bata at the annual week-long workshop in Arcata California:
www.humboldt.edu/~extended/afrocuban/

Other bata teachers at the course include Sandy Perez, Mike Spiro, Sonyalci Feldman, Chris Walker and Mark Lamson. Things have definitely changed since the 70’s!
-David

[guarachon63]

In 1980 Alfredo (can’t remember his last name darn it!) arrived from Cuba. He initiated the SF drummers and filled in their gaps of bata knowledge. He then moved to NYC, where he became Puntilla’s main rival.

I think you may be referring to Alfredo "Coyurde" Vidaux?

Saludos
Barry

[ralph]

In 1980 Alfredo (can’t remember his last name darn it!) arrived from Cuba. He initiated the SF drummers and filled in their gaps of bata knowledge. He then moved to NYC, where he became Puntilla’s main rival.

I think you may be referring to Alfredo "Coyurde" Vidaux?

Saludos
Barry

I've seen is spelled "Coyude", but in any case, did Alfredo come on the Mariel boatlift with others? He is still in NJ correct?

[davidpenalosa]

Barry and Ralph,
Yes it was Alfredo Vidaux. Thanks. He came over in the Mariel boatlift.

-David

[zaragenca]

Well as I said before neither of them were Olu Batas when they moved to the U.S.A.,(Julito or Francisco),both of them were playing for a show in the Sans Souci Casino with the Ortega's Orquestra with was playing there at that time..in the show in which Mercedita Valdez was the singer,...Trinidad Torregosa and Raul 'Nasaco' Diaz were the leaders bataleros,..but at one point they became proficient in learning the Bata.Dr. Zaragemca

[blango]

Wow David,

I think there are only a few of us who know about the early days here in the bay. Marcus told me all about it one lucky day. Your description is very accurate to what Marcus said.

funny add,

In the very beginning of the tradition in the bay, Marcus made a set of bata out of mexican tackheads and bongo shells glued together. Im making a set to try to recreate this event. im in the middle of finding the right shells to put together. :;):

Marcus is quite a man, who, as an American, truely embodies this amazing tradition. He is the most amazing Akpon!

We are so lucky here in the bay.

- Flaco, Chris Walker, studied extensively with Regino in Cuba. He is making a very nice contribution currently.

Also, there is a bit of Papo's house here too - ie David Fraiser, and Yagbe. I can ask them about where they learned - David F will share, for sure :;):

David, please do tell more of Francisco's influence in the early days around the bay, if you will.

Ache!

Tony



Edited By blango on 1188511599

[davidpenalosa]

Hi Tony,
I’m glad to hear that my sometimes-faulty memory has done justice to Marcus’ stories. I also remember hearing about the home-made bata constructed from Mexican tack-head congas and bongo shells glued together. I agree that Marcus is a wonderful person.

Whatever I know about Francisco Aguabella in the 70’s and 80’s comes from accounts told to me by Marcus, Harold Muñiz, Mike Spiro and John Santos. I’m afraid I don’t have too much more to add, but here goes...

I consider Francisco’s bembe playing on Mongo’s “Afro-Roots” and Tito’s “Top Percussion” to still be some of the tastiest examples of that early caja style in existence. However, I’ve been told that by the 70’s, he had stopped playing folkloric music. Also, Francisco had the reputation of not showing anything and generally, being an intense individual. His influence was primarily felt through his recordings and band performances. In other words, I don’t believe he played a role in SF similar to that of Julito Collazo in NYC.

As I stated before though, in the early 80’s this changed somewhat, when Francisco started a bata battery with Muñiz and Santos, with Spiro eventually replacing Santos. This group did several performances, one of which (“A Tribute to Francisco Aguabella” held at Cesar’s Latin Palace) is included in the Les Blank video “Sworn to the Drum”, a documentary film about the life of Francisco Aguabella. They performed several different folkloric genres such as bata, guiro, bricamo, palo and rumba. According to the program handed out at the Tribute to Francisco Aguabella, he was a unique drummer, in that all the local (Matanzas) drum cults recognized his talent and initiated him as a drummer into their cabildos. This included the obscure Olokún drums.

Harold and Mike left Francisco right before that recording with Lazaro Galarraga as akpwon was made (can’t remember the title). I was told that Francisco overdubbed the drums, playing all three bata himself. Since that time, there are now plenty of knowledgable bata drummers who can accompany Francisco.

I’ve had the honor of playing bata and congas with Francisco in dance classes and found him to be very mellow. He’s also been very warm and fun at parties during the annual Arcata workshop. He certainly doesn’t fit the profile I heard about in the earlier days.

The importance of the UFO’s is something I’ll save for another time.
-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1188526643

[blango]

Thanks for the stories David, i owe you a beer :;):

Im interested to hear if you know of Papo Angarica's influence here. Yagbe and Fraiser play that style. I dont think they worked with eachother, but i will check.

I love that we have the Matanzas style, with Sandy and Spiro, Havana's Okilagpa's house, and Papo's house represended in cerimony around the bay. There is even an attempt at the Nigerian style, or so i hear. (5 or 6 bata!!)

There is this cat, N~on~o, here in SF who knows the Santiago style, so i hear. its an incredible place and time!

David, please say hello next time you see me around, if you will. I'm sure we have met, but i cant remember

I think you were the cat with the white hat at Hadleys last Solstice who watched us play Rumba (me - European on Quinto), and i said hello at Sandy's show? Perhaps?

Tony

[davidpenalosa]

Hey Tony,
I am aware of the Papo Angarica influence in the Bay Area scene. It’s kind of like, what bata influences haven’t touched the Bay Area?

I used to travel to SF about once a month and the drummers there seemed to have a different way to play things each time. They never wanted me to play it the way they showed it to me the last time. They were all like bata sponges! I couldn’t believe there were that many variations possible with the oru seco.

There was a time when Yagbe and Fraiser were playing together a lot. I believe Fraiser came from the east coast and was already familiar with bata when he arrived in the Bay Area. As I understand it, Calvin and Yagbe received the fundamento drums from Papo Angarica in Cuba.

Mike and Harold had learned the Matanzas style back in the 80’s as a result of Mike’s trips to Cuba.

Francisco’s style is his own amalgamation of Matanzas and Havana repertoires. At one point the Bay Area guys came up with their own Havana-Matanzas blend.

I think Regino probably had the most profound effect on Bay Area drummers because he was able to spend more time there. He was also one of the easiest human beings to get along with.

Is there really a true Santiago repertoire, or does it consist of Havana and/or Matanzas material? John Amira speaks of a NYC school, but it looks like a potpourri of material that was accumulated before the Cubans were willing to share information.

I’d love to see the Nigerian style played. I have not found an example of Nigerian bata playing in the kind of style prevalent in Cuba; where the okonkolo and itotele enus and chachas are in opposition, the iya chacha coincides with the itotele enu, etc. While the African and Cuban bata share some rhythmic motifs, the African rhythms are constructed differently.

I wasn’t at either of those events you mentioned, although I was at one of Hadley’s parties about a decade ago. I don’t attend very many Bay Area gigs these days because I live about a 5 1/2 hour drive away. I’m not sure if we have ever met.

Here’s what I look like:
In this picture I’m playing in between Jesus Alfonso and the late Regino Jimenez:
www.humboldt.edu/~extended/afrocuban/

Here’s a more recent picture of me playing bata with Harold Muñiz and Michael Spiro:
www.humboldt.edu/~extended/afrocuban/photos/3instructors2002.html

It would be a pleasure to meet you in person some day. I’m sure it will happen.
-David

[blango]

Yes David!

oh, That David Penalosa! Much respect brother! :laugh: Sorry it didnt click!

Your description of the influences in the bay is really clean. Thanks for the history.

Im looking forward to meeting you as well. Isnt it strange to not know someone who knows all the people you know?? ???

Tony

[Thomas Altmann]

I think, the Angarica lineage was introduced by Alfredo Videaux, who initiated John Santos and Harold Muniz to Anya. (John pronounces his name Coyuti.) After Videaux, Pedro Orta "El Asmatico" represented the Angarica school. He taught Bill Summers, for example.

Thomas