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In batarumba, which is as far as I know, rumba with congas and bata,
what is the usual set up.

Is it the 3 congas and one bata? Which bata size is usually used?

Or is it more like 3 congas and all 3 bata?

Is it usually congas playing guaguanco or columbia, etc and the bata player or
players doing a bata toque, or is their a "bata guaganco" rumba part.

Usually in a batarumba, you'll have an iya player basically playing the iya part to chachalokuafon, and the rumberos playing guaguanco. Or there will be the battery of bata drums (i.e. iya, itotele, okonkolo) playing chachalokuafon with guaguanco. AfroCuba de Matanzas is known for batarumba, but they play it differently, or maybe i haven't heard enough recordings, but i can't really tell what exactly they are doing. Yoruba Andabo played batarumba on the "El Callejon..." album mixing bata w/ a columbia, and i've heard recording where they will just use the okonkolo against a guaguanco such as the okonkolo part to "titi laro" and use it as the main theme in a columbia like in the album by Roman Diaz y el Ven Tu rumbero "Wemilere" ....correct me if i'm wrong anyone....

sorry i meant "tui tui" instead of Titi Laro....what about a bataplena? I just got Zaperoko's first recording and they start w/ a rumba go into a plena, and end with a bataplena, with bata and plena playing simultaneously!!! que bestia!!!

Bata plena huh? Sounds cool. Isn't plena also played with a guitar like instrument?
I don't really know much about plena, it's Puerto Rican right?

I remember I posted a picture once of John Coltrane playing with a bata player
in his group, I guess that would be bata jazz (or bata bop, a la CuBop?)

I remember they combined Rumba Iyesá (the batá toque) with Plena. These rhythms are quite similar, if not related, and in fact belong to a greater family of rhythms that are all cinquillo-based and have several features in common. Other rhythms that belong to this family are: Bomba (Sica) and Plena from Puerto Rico, Makuta and Iyesá /Yesa from Cuba, Ijexá and Afoché (perhaps even Baiao) from Brasil, some types of Calypso (Trinidad), Reggaetón in a way, Petro Rhythms from the Haitian Vaudou and probably a few other Caribbean rhythms (Beguine?).

So the idea to mix this particular toque batá with Plena was not really that far out, I think.

Greetings,

Thomas

very good insight onto the subject Thomas, and thanks for bringing up the connection between forms such as bomba, makuta, plena....can we bring tumba francesa into this mix as well you think? On the Zaperoko recording they paired plena with chachalokuafun and not rumba iyesa though.... David P where are you?

Oh, I'm sorry Ralph; next time I listen to the piece before I contribute my "lies". You are right of course. Probably someone else did the Iyesá thing in another tune, on some other record, and I vaguely remembered something like that. That was pretty rash of me. I apologize.

If you wish to expand on the cinquillo family, I suggest we start another thread.

TA

Hi folks,
I'm taking up the issue of "cinquillo-based rhythms" in the Open Discussion section.
-David

Si, plena is from PR. You know the song elena, elena by Manny Oquendo?
I remember there was a loosly named "style" of cubop back in the day.
Some of the batarumba that meshes w/ columbia, guaguanco is wicked stuff!!

Ralph, Thomas, David, great topic you folks bring up. Its interesting to delve into the relations of various cell structures of rhythms that occupy different transposed cultures.
T

bongosnotbombs wrote:Bata plena huh? Sounds cool. Isn't plena also played with a guitar like instrument?
I don't really know much about plena, it's Puerto Rican right?

I remember I posted a picture once of John Coltrane playing with a bata player
in his group, I guess that would be bata jazz (or bata bop, a la CuBop?)

have known this topic had come up before, 4 years ago
by Laurent viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1049&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Hi everyboy,

I would like to discuss about rhythms used to mix in the combinations of batarumba.

I know the most known :

Chachalokuafun + Guaguanco
Rumba Obatala + Guaguanco
Ñongo + Columbia
etc...

Those little less known :

TuiTui + Columbia
Inle + Guaguanco
Chenchekururu + Guarapachangueo
Odua por derecho + Palo

I would like to know those whom you know?

Those of the legendary groups like "Clave y Guaguanco", Afrocuba de Matanzas etc...

Goodbye

BNB....

tui tui and columbia....

you have to listen to the song "OYA" on "Wemilere" - Roman Diaz y Ventu Rumbero

http://www.amazon.com/Santeria-Sacred-D ... B0000AHSB4

it starts off an abakua and goes into the okonkolo part for tui tui, and keeps that through a columbia song...its great!

Clave Y Guaguanco is doing a different style batarumba on "La Voz del Congo" from the Dejala en la puntica album...i know i've heard that toque before but i can't think of the name.. any ideas Thomas or Dave, or Jorge, or whoever...?

Then you have Pancho Quinto's "En El Solar" where they play tui tui to an old standard "La Media Vuelta"...i hope i am on track here...they are playing "tui tui" are they not?

Thanks Ralph,
I've got those two tracks, the Clave y Guaguanco and Pancho Quinto, I'll take a close
listen during lunch.

BNB,
I think it would be good to say whether a toque de bata with(only bata) clave and rumba lyrics qualifies it as batarumba, or is batarumba more of a guaguanco with a tres golpes part + plus bata on top of that, that latter being bata y conga and the former being only bata....i say both...

BNB you don't have Wemilere?

Ralph,
I don't have Wemilere, I have the other two albums though.

That's an interesting point you bring up about defining what batarumba is.
I would agree with you.

It kind of makes me wonder what dance would go with your first example
the toque de bata with the rumba lyrics and the clave. A rumba dance or one
of the dances that would go with the particular toque?

Ralph:

very short response to your question: Yes, that's Tui-Tui on "La Media Vuelta". I don't have "Dejala en la Puntica".

Thomas