The Easter Bunney brought Ochosi ( LOL )

[flaco999]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0fQvQyDIPw

[Thomas Altmann]

Yeah, one can do that. People are playing 3 batá at a time. Why not? I know somebody in Hamburg who has constructed a drum set that allows him to reproduce the toques batá in a similar way as Cleve Pozar does with his mallet instrument. Off the Amira score. Why not?

People should be recognized for the work they put in it, orchestration and coordination. A lot of independence.

But, is that what art is about? And, is there a message behind the bunny performance? Who knows.

Why think about it at all?

It's just an entirely insignificant effort in every aspect. I can have a good time in so many ways, I just don't need this. It's cheap in my opinion.

Thomas

[jorge]

I agree with you Thomas, but here is a possible scenario, a logical extension of this kind of technology. Next step would be to sequence the toques on a computer, using one of the sequencing / midi software packages Cubase, Sonar, Logic, Samplitude, there are lots of them out there. You could reproduce the entire oru seco with floreos and everything. You could do the same with the various rumbas. Then you could sell pieces of it as samples to computer "music" makers and make some money. If you are smart and have a good lawyer you could probably make a significant amount of money before it all got digitally stolen. With a really greedy lawyer, you and he or she could probably make a LOT of money, but then you would have to fight your lawyer for a fair share and the musician usually loses that battle. It could become the next fad, like disco, hip hop, reggaeton, drum and bass, and stuff we never even heard of that is out there being played in the clubs for people to get high and "dance" to. Everyone would have heard Ñongo and Chachalokpafun in the clubs and on the radio, but few people would have any idea of the history behind the music. A few of us could make some honorarium cash giving lectures on the historical roots of the "new" club music.

Then the fad would blow over and we would be back to wood and cuero. I was playing okonkolo this morning with a really good Iya player and there is just NO WAY a computer will ever come close to the stuff we were playing. Only humans can do that. Sequenced toques may someday sound similar to parts of the oru but will never reproduce the communication and interaction among the drummers, singers, and dancers. But all that takes years of hard disciplined work, plus knowing the right people, plus being in the right places at the right times, plus dealing with all the craziness in that scene. Sequenced bata will be a very poor imitation of the real thing, but will be a whole lot cheaper and more accessible for the masses. We all know the bad money drives out the good, and very few of the kids coming up now have the discipline to sit down and learn to play real instruments, much less oral tradition bata and religious songs in different Afrocuban languages from hundreds of years ago. If this process takes 10 years to occur and go away, our generation would be 10 years older with even less young people to teach, and the improvisational beauty of talking with drums would be that much farther away and harder to pass on. Is this where we want this music to go? Que siga la rumba cubana, keep the tradition alive.

Fortunately, there is no need for Prozac, the situation in Cuba is much different and the tradition is very much alive and growing. In fact, the culture and creativity are so strong in Cuba, we in the US and Europe can't even comprehend some of the developments of the last generation of Afrocubans in Cuba. They are light years ahead of us here in the US, so much so that we don't have to worry about the culture dying, as long as Cuba survives.

As an example, although they have been here in the US for a few years, here is some bata music interpreted on congas by Pedrito Martinez and Mauricio Herrera, both super talented products of the Afrocuban music educational system in Cuba. Although they did not include Ochosi, they play for Eleggua and Ochun to start off, then at 4:20 into the video they do a 2 minute + break in unison and in clave, with Pedrito playing clave with his foot. Sequence that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oC-j8wX ... re=related

[Thomas Altmann]

My God, I don't believe these guys. I don't even understand what they are doing. I lose track of the clave!!!

I did not recognize any batá part either, maybe because my video download is too slow; but the audio didn't reveal anything to me either, whatever that means. Actually, I know the oru seco.

I'm afraid I don't understand this language anymore. But that is rather my fault than anyone else's, probably.

Thomas

[flaco999]

"Is that what is about" , I would think that would be up to the artist and listener ?
There aren't too many artists out there with Cleves talent though.

A lot of guy's know bata parts , Cleve knows the bata, and can play it in any setting or situation. I can attest to that.
He's also a monster bebop player!!!

I told him to be careful though , Ochosi likes hunting wabbit.

[Thomas Altmann]

Dear Flaco,

I have seriously considered giving a lengthy statement upon your post, because this touches one of my principal issues I have with a lot of music that is made today. But this clip isn't worth a thought. I just let it be what it is.

To make it very clear, I don't question the musical skills of Cleve Pozar. I think I acknowledged the technical side of such a performance sufficiently. Cleve was/is in the batadrums newsgroup, too. At one point he approached me for proofreading a transcription he made of my iyá part in Alaró Yemayá. I suggested he'd better check out Aldama, Jesús Pérez and all the people that I was trying to copy, but he insisted.
Somehow I had the impression that he is merely interested in the musical aspects of playing batá and doesn't want any rules and dogmas mess with his artistic freedom. Is that true?

By the way, I have a similar impression of you.

You know, the point is that I would never deny anybody the artistic (or whatever) liberty he has by nature. On the premise of this freedom, it rather tells a lot about the artist what he decides to make of it. Being a listener and an artist (as most of us are), I have a particular sensitivity for a fellow drummer's utterings.

We'll have something to talk about ...

Thomas

[flaco999]

Hi Thomas,
I don't know that Cleve is only interested in the musical aspects of the bata , and I could tell you that this is not true of me at all . I know Cleve is involved in the religion , and I personaly was born into this religion , my family is full of santera's and my uncle has Ochosi made. My godfather is a drummer here on the east coast, and I have a deep fascination with bembe and arara. All this being said, we both don't let any rules or dogma get in the way of our artistic freedom. I don't want to speak for Cleve , but I think we both have been exposed to a lot of bullshit regarding prejudice and dogma in this religion and are kind of tired of it. We both do our own thing and it's all good. I gotta tell you though that I love playing the stuff in it's folklorical sense , and I can't see how drummers can actualy play this stuff "right" without embracing the religion.
However, I just choose to embrace the gods, instead of the politics that goes on , that stuff I give no cred whatsoever.
In all, I'll let this clip be what it is too, which is an amazing display of musical creativity, independence and virtuosity .
And if we are talking religion.... This cat is one of Ogun's favorite sons , no doubt.

Hey ,I can't wait for that talk , I'm a big fan of your's .
Your friend
Flaco