Zaragemca's biography

[JohnnyConga]

Ok guys looking up the word "Master" it is described as " a man who rules others,or power over something", a person very skilled and able in some work,profession,science,music,etc....just so we all know, when someone considers themselves a "Master" drummer, it is based on this interpretation.....though I have been playing for 40 years I can say I have "mastered" the "Art of playing the Conga Drum", and would only call myself a "master drummer", when I have learned ALL there is to learn with the drum, and I'm STILL learning......peace..."JC" Johnny Conga...

[JohnnyConga]

Hi Ralph...I don't know how old u are , but Rumba has been around a long time and has been popular since the 40's-50's....Arara-Palo-Bembe and the others are just as popular also....."JC" Johnny Conga...

[ralph]

l like your analogy better Isaac, i don't know what i was thinking...by the way thanks for the CD, plus the skin if official...
Johnny, i hear you about palo, bembe, guiro etc...but i wouldn't say they are as popular as rumba, unless one has been exposed to a tambor, guiro, or toque de palo, on a regular basis, in the recording world, i would say it is definitely not as "popular" as rumba...but i would say that it is just as important if not more important to become familiar with these rhythms, to better understand rumba, especially since the similarities within these rhythms are so evident...that why the best rumberos know all of it, because it's all related, i always like to refer to el Goyo, who was a good apkwon, morua, tumbador, and gallo...he did it all...thats where the greater understanding lies...
Also about being a master, first i think you gotta be recognized by peers, who are themselves masters, to consider yourself one, because its just like calling yourself a genius...there has to be a consensus...but then i think i've said to much already...
peace

[untaltumbador]

Ralph

I was under the undestanding that "Rumba" was a gathering of drummers( tumbadores) where all of these rhythm were being played. For instance at a Rumba one hear Guaguancos, Yambus, Columbias sometimes without a clear ending. I would venture to say that a Rumba is very much like a drum circle.

I am still learning

Untal

[Berimbau]

Untal,
Rumba is like a drum circle except here the drummers actually have some time and really know how to play!!!!


Saludos,



Berimbau

[percomat]

Rumba, to me (ignoring the vocals and dancing), is clave/cascara, tres-dos and salidor, which together a groove as for example the typical guaguanco havanero. The groove goes through the whole number, but it is the strokes in between the ones in the groove, the strokes beyond the form, where quinto seems aspecially active, who makes a rumba good. I have never attended in any drumcircles, but to me drumcircles seems to be accidental, like "just playing", I would say that rumba is not. If rumba had been "just playing" or accidental, it would not be possible to identify music as for example a guaguanco havanero. Actually, I'm a bit irritated of the talk about drumdominated music based on this seemingly accidental approach, thats also why I asked about the improvisational role of quinto. Because when people talk about this kind of music, they seem to talk about a "free", accidental, call-and-resonse, or maybe even "wild" approach, instead of talking about what is specific to this music, ignoring that this music has a style of its own.

[Mr. NoChops]

Anyway, since you say you are born, raised and trained by master rumberos, maybe you could share some information about the improvisational character of rumba?

Good question Percomat. The improvisational character of the quinto is prevalent in all Afro-cuban drumming. The nature of the soloing is dependent on the symmetric application of roll techniques in direct vertical relation to the clave. One must proceed with intricate caution to master the nuances of quinto improvisation in the rhumba. I have been improvising in Cuba for 30 years with Anga, Chanquito and Giovanni. Our consolidation of master drummers in the realm of advanced percussion techniques is pioneering a new approach to quinto improvisation. However, I will not share this enlightening information with you because I am a prick, I honestly know fuck all about what I’m saying and I’m just wasting everybody’s god damned time.

Respect and saludos,

Dr. Zaragemca

[ABAKUA]

Anyway, since you say you are born, raised and trained by master rumberos, maybe you could share some information about the improvisational character of rumba?

Good question Percomat. The improvisational character of the quinto is prevalent in all Afro-cuban drumming. The nature of the soloing is dependent on the symmetric application of roll techniques in direct vertical relation to the clave. One must proceed with intricate caution to master the nuances of quinto improvisation in the rhumba. I have been improvising in Cuba for 30 years with Anga, Chanquito and Giovanni. Our consolidation of master drummers in the realm of advanced percussion techniques is pioneering a new approach to quinto improvisation. However, I will not share this enlightening information with you because I am a prick, I honestly know fuck all about what I’m saying and I’m just wasting everybody’s god damned time.

Respect and saludos,

Dr. Zaragemca

[Berimbau]

Mr. No Chops,
How dare you appropriate my allready humorous post!! I did it FIRST!!! That picture was NOT funny Abakua!! Are you trying to imply that I'm anything less than THE MASTER!!! On your knees, infidel, and bow to the self-crowned KING of the tumbadoras!!! Now bark like a dog!! Bark you little bitch, bark!!!



Saludos,



Dr. Z Gobblygook

[ralph]

Untal,
Refer to what Berimbau said (about rumba not Dr.Z)...although now cats just say, vamos a rumbear, and its like a jam session...but rumba in its original context is the drums, clave, guagua, dance, and voice...really without the singer there is no rumba...
Percomat, yeah quinto is not accidental, but it is feeling as well. i'm listening alot to Mario Aspirina, (Rumberos de Cuba), trying to figure out where he puts his licks..usually after the tres golpe, then the quinto hits, and then after the tumbador, thats assuming we start with tres golpes, then tumbador, these hits are usually placed on the second beat of the tres golpe, or right after the second beat. Then after the tumbador...these are the more simple riffs.



Edited By ralph on 1124200199

[untaltumbador]

Berimbau and Ralph

"Untal,
Rumba is like a drum circle except here the drummers actually have some time and really know how to play!!!!"

I agree!
In fact I hear that if you can't play they boot you out. They are not as tolerant.

Thank you

Peace

[Berimbau]

25 years ago I gravitated towards the VERY Cuban rumba in Berkeley held behind (and far away from) the noisy hippie drum circle in the student commons. I was sternly told NOT to play ANY of my Brasilian instruments or to bring any of those "hippie assholes" with me. They let me play bell and shekere in a very delightful and ultra-disciplined jam. Everyone sang and danced. After that I always avoided the cacophonous hippie freakshow, and treated myself to a fur Kangol touring cap. Just like the great rumbero Patato wears...............


Saludos,


Berimbau

[percomat]

Thanks Ralph for good answers, of course I agree that without singing there will be no rumba, but I`m very much into the quinto-playing, I find it very interesting, though I do not understand fully your explanation of where the quinto-strokes landed. Anyway I saw Rumberos de Cuba once at Teatro Nacioal, then they where playing guarapachangero, great band, by the way, I noticed that they never played the open salidor-strokes on the four. It's aslo good that you mentions El Goyo, he is great, do you know Cuando de Africa Sali? on La rumba es cubana-record, thats probably the coolest guaguanco-groove I know. It works great playing too, aspecially with clave on the left foot - if you can keep it tight, a8.



Edited By percomat on 1124447847

[ralph]

I find it very interesting, though I do not understand fully your explanation of where the quinto-strokes landed.

its hard to explain, you kind of have to hear it, and look for it...it must have been nice to see Rumberos live, they don't play the traditional tumbador at all, as far as i can tell from listening, they use cajon, and tumba, and hit more on the tres golpe, and bombo note...and some variations in between, although i'm sure you could attest that the tres golpe is pretty steady throughout...it's like the anchor



Edited By ralph on 1124566446

[ralph]

It's aslo good that you mentions El Goyo, he is great, do you know Cuando de Africa Sali? on La rumba es cubana-record, thats probably the coolest guaguanco-groove I know. It works great playing too, aspecially with clave on the left foot - if you can keep it tight, a8.

Goyo was the best...singer, tumbador, he was probably a good dancer to for all i know...
i still have not heard his latest, and am going to get it soon...