Using ghost notes to keep time

[spiritdrum]

Hi,

I'd like to generate discussion around what people think about the use of ghost notes to either keep time and/or a method for beginners to learn.

At a personal level, I never learned how to play drums alternating hands and using ghost notes. Although I've played at drum circles and find that many people play alternating hands, my first structured learning experience and resulting several years playing drums was the West African style and a little Congolese.

Ghosting is not taught in West African style and dance teachers do not like drummers who ghost cause on a djembe it is hard to quiet the ghost notes.

Now I play mainly Afro-cuban folkloric and some popular, styles that also don't really play alternating hands with the creation of mono secreta by Changuito. Ghosting does happen though.

So why bring it up. Well, I find that my flow is not always smooth when I vary by revoicing or adding a note in a rhythm, and question if its cause I never learned how to play hand over hand.

I've done some research and found that Samba rhythms are played with ghost notes and hand over hand. I've been working on some basic Samba rhythms and found that technique H-over-H is very new and chanllenging for me.


So what do people think?

Lisa

[windhorse]

Hi,

I'd like to generate discussion around what people think about the use of ghost notes

Ghosting is not taught in West African style and dance teachers do not like drummers who ghost cause on a djembe it is hard to quiet the ghost notes.

So why bring it up. Well, I find that my flow is not always smooth when I vary by revoicing or adding a note in a rhythm, and question if its cause I never learned how to play hand over hand.

Lisa, I've found the same thing in my playing, that when I try to voice - let's say by alternating tones and slaps, that my timing might slip. I found that problem specifically when I was working on quinto rides based on the tresillo hocket. It's already a really tricky move to be able to play the hocket conisistently at speed, but when you start varying the voicing,, well, that's a whole new ballgame!
So, I had to learn it with ghost notes. Now, after about 6-8 months of working on it my ghost notes are almost indiscernable, so it has worked for me.

Just a word about your statements, like "Ghosting is NOT taught in West African style". I'd probably change that to, "I've found in my experience, "
Because I've found the truth to be the opposite.
Doesn't mean I think it's always taught a certain way, but I was actually guided to use ghosting as much as possible by one of my fabulous teachers who came from the West African tradition..
Sure makes sense though that a dance teacher wouldn't want someone to play them if they couldn't tell the difference in the ghost notes. :;):

[spiritdrum]

I found that problem specifically when I was working on quinto rides based on the tresillo hocket. It's already a really tricky move to be able to play the hocket conisistently at speed, but when you start varying the voicing,, well, that's a whole new ballgame!


Just a word about your statements, like "Ghosting is NOT taught in West African style". I'd probably change that to, "I've found in my experience, "
Because I've found the truth to be the opposite.

Hi Dave,

Hope your are doing well!!. Do you play the tresillo and tresillo hocket with alternative hands? I found that when I play the quinto lock I don't play it alternating my hands but use my strong hand more or mano secreta.

I found some of your past posts on tresillo which are really very interesting. You know if you shift the son clave a 1/16 note, you get a pattern that includes the quinto lock. Pretty cool.

And clarification for all: I has been my personal experience that West African drumming does not include alternating hand technique and ghost notes.

peace,

Lisa

[pavloconga]

Ghosting is not taught in West African style and dance teachers do not like drummers who ghost cause on a djembe it is hard to quiet the ghost notes.

Hi Lisa,
Playing 'ghost notes' is taught and played in some West African styles of music - e.g. hand drumming styles from the coastal regions of Ghana for example - the Ga people being one group.
I'm assuming when you use the term 'ghost notes' that you mean the smaller 'fill in' sounds that are played as part of a rhythm.
As just one example, a Ga rhythm called Kpanlogo if played without the ghost notes sounds pretty empty. The addition of the ghost notes brings an extra dimension of rhythm and adds a particular 'flavour'.

[If anyone knows of a way of posting sound files here I can demonstrate this as a 'before and after' scenario.]

However - there are situations when the ghost notes are sometimes NOT played - when that same rhythm is played at a very fast tempo in an ensemble those notes are often left out.

So, really, it all depends on the rhythm and the context.
I base these comments on personal experience from in depth study in West Africa on 3 separate trips from 1998 to 2004.

regards
Pavlo



Edited By pavloconga on 1190423062

[Derbeno]

The Pilón rhythm for example uses a ghost note, you can either use your palm on side edge of the drum or touch gently with the tip of your finger(s).

To learn, it's the same as everything slowly first so the movement becomes natural and build up speed gradually.

It looks much more a big deal than it actually is

[Whopbamboom]

I use ghost notes all the time, but it's not mainly for keeping time. I have a pretty good sense of internal rhythm for that (though ghosting can help me keep my timing concrete). For me, my main use of ghost notes is to add texture to my rhythms.
I have to mention that djembe is where I got started. I also must mention that I have never had formal lessons, everything I do is by whatever I've developed on my own and by listening to other people's music.

[windhorse]

Hope your are doing well!!. Do you play the tresillo and tresillo hocket with alternative hands? I found that when I play the quinto lock I don't play it alternating my hands but use my strong hand more or mano secreta.

I found some of your past posts on tresillo which are really very interesting. You know if you shift the son clave a 1/16 note, you get a pattern that includes the quinto lock. Pretty cool.

And clarification for all: I has been my personal experience that West African drumming does not include alternating hand technique and ghost notes.

peace,

Lisa

Thanks Lisa, yep, doing great now that I've almost kicked the sciatica I've had for a month... But, that's another story :p
Yes, I do alternating hands. I chose to do it that way so that I could flow more with the ride.

By "mano secreta" I assume you mean bass touches on non-dominant hand.. Yeah, that one was one of the first things I did to find the hocket of tresillo, but that accents the tresillo, and not the hocket. I wanted something that accented the hocket itself - therefore the ghosted tresillo, which I started by using basses on the tresillo, and tones on the hocket notes.

I hope you guys in CA are doing well!!!
I'm going down to Southern Colorado today (and if you're a fan of South Park, that's where I'm headed :laugh: ) to play some at a Yoga retreat.
Should be interesting...

[akdom]

Ahhhh ghost notes...

here is my opinion, which is only mine and that might be different according to others, but ghost notes help for alterning hand rythmes (mostly west African), but the alterning hands is not true on congas.. just the marcha (tumbao) is a simple example... how can you play it with alternate hands???

So I just recommand to use them as they come, naturally to fill in some blanks if they enrich the rythm..

Playing ghost notes all the time is not a good idea...

B

[Whopbamboom]

I agree that they should not be used all the time. I suppose my comment that I use them "all the time" could have been taken the wrong way. I should have said that I use them "frequently". Probably every time that I play, I use them at some point during the session. Maybe that clarifies what I was trying to say.



Edited By Whopbamboom on 1190493363

[congamyk]

i ain't afraid of no ghost





Edited By congamyk on 1190499751