Interpreting Notes

[ElRey]

Using the attached notation as an example, how does one apply "left/right" hand interpretation without the "L" or "R" documented? Thanks in advance....

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... bembe2.gif

[Diceman]

THe higher note is the higher drum, usually between knees and the lower note is lower drum, to the right on a right hand player. The top score looks like alternating hand technique ie lrlrlr or rlrlrl so work out where the right hand hits the lower drum then work back from there, so the first note will be with the right hand for a rightie.
The lower score top line has rests, I would play rests as very light touches, but different 'congaforumbadoras' may play that differently. The lower line also suggests that one hand is on the lower drum and top line played with the other hand, again......... Forumbadoras??

Notes=open tones, X=slap, the other note is a touch I think. other wise it is reading music ie the note position and rests in time is as conventional music.

If you start seeing black triangles as notes, it usually refers to finger tips and heel tones, manetao, 'fish' or rocking hand technique. Another ballgame.

hope that helps
Diceman

[CongaTick]

"Dice advice" is always nice.

And lefty players like me need to transpose the
"handing"(I actually pencil in R, L when working on a new pattern), so that for me -- in the first notation, I start the first open tone with my right hand.

[zaragenca]

That representation of notation for the congas is wrong,(the instrument don't even have a 7,(seven note/scale system),for the acurate reproduction and representation of note,(as it is done with melodic and harmonic instruments),there is not even an standart way to tune the drum/set neither,a few drummers would like to monopolize the way that a drum supose to sound,which is not and have never been the case,there is a characteristic sound of drums in the Rock genre wit is different than the charater in jazz,which is different than the charater in Reggae,which is differetn than the character in a Disco/Music,which is differet than the character in the Hip Hop/House genre,which is different than the Character in the Rancher/Grupero in the mexican genre,which is different than the character in the afrocuban genre....And even in an specific genre there are some differences in the voicing of the drums/sound....in the Congas the notation is less acurate becouse it would depend on how and where the congas is hit it,the diameter of the instrument,the skill of the percussionists,the condition of the instrument and again there is not way of setting a seven notes scale system,unless you are playing with seven different congas.Dr. Zaragemca

[windhorse]

:p What??

[Diceman]

Dr Z,

If I understand you correctly and IMHO, you are confusing the use of the stave when applied to drums. The vertical position of the note doesnt apply to the tuning as in a melody instrument (I also play Saxophone) but each position represents a part of the kit, eg bass drum, snare, hi hat etc for drum kit, for congas it merely applies to the high, middle and low drums' relative tuning, not a specific note. Now horizontally, the position DOES apply (swing and groove notwithstanding) and the notes DO indicate where they stand in time. It aint perfect, it helps convey the rhythm, but there is no substitute for being shown by someone who knows like your good self.
Hope that helps Z, no ego here, just trying to help you.

El Rey
There are many conventions for the type of strike and are usually indicated by the note head. All this is difficult if you are trying to convey conga rhythms in text, so I suggest my tried and tested method using letters of the alphabet:

o=open tone
s=slap
m=muff
h=heel
t=tip
b=bass tone
. or- =no hit
you may need other symbols eg for open slaps etc.
lower case for week hand, CAPITALS for strong hand
and a different line above or below for side drums.

eg htSthtOOhtS sOO
OO

Standard two drum Marcha with drum to the right played with the right hand (if strong hand is the right hand)

Gets more complicated with more drums, but works well up to three drums

Hope that helps too,

Feliz Natal a ano novo, tudo bem.

Diceman

[zaragenca]

Welcome,Diceman,the notification,to show the differents strokes in the conga,Bongo instruments have already been develpoed,so trying to put a on the pentagrama,(staff),is not providing more help in understanding it,neither the fantasy of tuning the congas to specific keys,(becouse not all the songs are played to the same key,and the conga,bongo,timbales /players could not change the tune in each song as the rst of the melodic instruments could do,trying to put the congas in the pentagrama musical, add up more confusion than help,( Dr. Ortiz's with the help of a piano player tryed to do it with the drums long time ago and it was a mess), several bataleros and percussionists were thinking that they were learning the articulation but, when playing with other bataleros and percussionist, they were in the mist,(I could talk aboutit becouse I have been playing drum/set and percussion for 45 years,(all type of music), and teaching for 17 years,observing congeros,(in my country and out side too), trying to get what somebody else put in the pentagrama and having to put that stuff on the side and play,(which is what they have been doing since the first time they came to my country and developed those articulation which are used today in the Afrocuban percussion and other genre of music..Dr. Zaragemca

[korman]

So zaragenca, what type of percussion notation is the most used in Cuba?

Of course no notation will ever capture all the detail and nuance, for example the notation for melodic instruments too only indicates the main pitch of the note, but not timbre, however some kind of notation is useful and even necessary in many occasions.

If there wasn't a notation we would not hear any classical music from 19th century or earlier, before time the phonograph was invented. And it would be a lot more difficult to coordinate orchestras and big bands if musicians did not have the scores to glance upon.

What regards this particular example, the staff paper is only used as convenient place to write down notes. Not all the five lines are used. In case of two drums, it could have been just one line. Main thing is, even though timbral nuances may be left out, the timing of notes can be consistently and correctly reproduced with the musical notation.

[Diceman]

Dr Z,

Totally agree with you and Korman, and we still need to convey drum rhythms (not tunings) using pen and paper.

How is it done in Cuba?

Diceman

[zaragenca]

In Cuba the percussionists would evaluate what the bass and other percussion instruments are doing in order to incorporate the musical phrase for interaction 'without' interference with other people parameters,(repetition),but now there are notation which have been developed which point out the hands, and the type of stroke,(it have been in the internet and in use for sometime,I have seen some people in this forum showing the notetion,(not the staff).Dr. Zaragemca

[Diceman]

Dr Z,

I totally agree with the approach of making sure you are enhancing the rhythm and tune as a whole and not just repeating etc etc, but can you give us an example of Cuban notation please? How would you write the standard marcha, for example?

Diceman

[tamboricua]

Guys,

Attached is a JPG file of some percussion notation (legend) developed by Cuban percussionist/educator Jose Eladio Amat with the help of one of his students trombonist/percussionist Curtis Lanoue.

Hope this helps!

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio



Edited By tamboricua on 1166807410

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... tation.jpg

[zaragenca]

Thanks Tamboricua,(people in this forum already knows that I teach,but I don't like to post notations over the internet),I do that stuff in person....But even that system was developed fairly recently since there were not school to teach Tumbadoras,Bongos,and Timbales in Cuba when I was growing up as musician,with a few exceptions,the orquestras and groups would hire you after knowing that you have the knowledge to handle the job,and people would get the knowledge by been raised as percussionists usually as kid,listening and playing....I could tell the brothers in this subject that in the 30's and 40's,there weren't even rod system to tune the drums,(just the fire to get the skin in condition),and everybody was playing that way everywhere, and all the percussion patterns and musical phrases for the Tumbadoras,Timbales,and Bongos were created in that condition,the creation of fields like the internet,is the one which create the situation of people which like to see the patterns written, before that, it was always listennig, looking.and learning.Dr. Zaragemca

[Diceman]

Hey- we are back where we started.

Over and out!!

Diceman

[Tone]

Hi diceman,

sorry to contradict you but in the case of that Bembe ryhthm it would be LLRLLRLLRetc...
You actually play the kila of the Itotele/Bata with the left hand and play Onkokolo and Iya parts with the right. If you play three congas you can alternate hands and play most Bata adaptations in that classic way.

It is endless fun. It gets even better when you start play 3 against 2 on the separate drums like in adaptations of chachalocafun and other real polyrhythms.

Hi tamboricua,

I studied with Jose helladio in Havana as well. Do you have any news of him? Is he still complaining endlessly about the system...?
He is a really great teacher and player and a very friendly and serious character as well. I advise people who go to study in Cuba to get in touch with him.
I have found his notation to be the best. Really efficient and easy to read. at the end of each lesson he would write pages and pages of the stuff at lightning speed.

Happy hollydays to all the congueros around the world.

James Brown RIP. One of the top musician of the 20th century no doubt.