Practicing, Callouses, and Dangers?

A place where discuss about secrets, tips and suggestions for practicing on congas and to improve your skill and technique ...

Postby CongaTick » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:45 pm

Big thumb callus on right thumb joint, smaller one on left thumb joint. Hardened finger tips on both hands without obvious callus. Every time I sit down behind the skins it's like starting over to perfect technique and push the clearest, cleanest response from each stroke with a minimum of effort. And to be able to acheive perfection with speed--- ah, that's another story... Some callusing is likely a natural by-product of that effort, but cinder block? Not necessary, IMO.
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Postby pavloconga » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:19 am

Getting good sounds is all about good technique whether you have callouses or not.

I've heard great sounds being produced by players with and without calloused fingers. One hour a day practice is unlikely to give you callouses. Try 6 - 8 hours of heavy playing a day for several months. Probably not gonna happen unless you're studying in Cuba or Africa.
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Postby jomo_sundiata » Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:04 pm

Johnny Conga,

How long has it been since you started your Glucosamine/Chondroitin program?
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Postby JohnnyConga » Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:35 pm

About 6 months now and it's working really good for me...."JC" Johnny Conga.... :D



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Postby jomo_sundiata » Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:56 pm

It seems that it's like working out. Unless your training for a triathlon, moderate daily exercise is all you need. there's no use in putting the body through that much stress, unless your just into it like that. same with drumming. It seems that an hour a day, with focus on technique will get you through. With not so much focus on hard hitting for callouses. If you start to feel pain or numbness, simply take a break. But if your particular situation calls for many hours a drumming, then you may want to take necessary precautions....
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Postby Tone » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:58 am

I find that the more I play and learn, the less callouses I get.

I used to get really bad and painful ones, playing 3 to 5 hours everyday for years. Now that my technique has improved with my sound, I hardly get any callouses at all.
When I start getting callouses again I check my technique very carefully and usually correct it to have the cleanest possible sound with minimum effort and pain.

In a way you could say that I strive to have as little callouses as possible and that it is for me a sign of bad technique.

Of course if you play very hard for long hours you will pay for it, now and in your old age.

I think the old school congueros who developped the modern conga technique had much more callouses than the modern players, but they also had a lot of heart.

I read somewhere that Louis Armstrong had pretty poor technique on the trumpet (in modern terms, diaphragm respiration, etc...) but he compensated by tremendous force and heart. When it got bad he had to cut the stuff with a razor blade off his lips!!!

Nowadays we can probably be much more efficient, thanks to all the devellopements in technique. But we are not the pioneers any more.
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Postby jorge » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:27 am

While it is not the only factor, I think technique is the most important factor in whether your playing causes long term damage to your hands. Some of the greatest professional conga players have found a way to keep playing for many years without doing serious harm to their hands.

Last month, I had the privelege of meeting and playing with Francisco Aguabella at the Humboldt University Afrocuban Drum and Dance workshop. He is an amazing person. I don't think there was a single drummer there that plays harder than he does. He plays bembe with a stick, but plays bata and rumba with his hands. When he hit the quinto at the rumbas, my ears hurt. He gets a very clean, consistent, and loud sound from the drum. He did not have a lot of calluses on his hands, although he did wear a bandaid on each middle finger when he played Iya. He has been playing for more years than I have been alive, and often with amplified jazz, rock, and latin groups. Likewise, at the rumba today, a lot of us were in our 50s and have been playing 30 and 40 years. Some of the best players have no or minimal calluses. I don't think we should assume that getting lots of big calluses is unavoidable or a good thing. I definitely don't think it is necessary in order to get a good sound from the conga.
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Postby JayMacho » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:24 am

You know a friend of mine from the old school told me how in the 60's and 70's everyone was busting their hands open from playing. So much so that Ray Barretto accepted his award on behalf of all those who busted their hands playing. But then he told me how in '80 when the cubans came they pretty much showed that you don't need to bust your hands to play. Like Patato put it, "you don't bang your drums, you play them. Treat them like a lady". Then he stands on his congas and dances on them. LOL! Go figure...

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La Llave es la Clave!
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Postby yoni » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:48 am

My very first post on Congaplace touched on (or slapped on:)) this subject - and even the article at the beginning of this thread doesn't say it specific enough - in my opinion. It's on the right track saying it's "muscle tissue death" causing blood in the urine, but it could be more specifically blood cell death, from what I've heard. Even before the point that muscle tissue gets destroyed, red blood cells can be popped as they run through blood vessels in hands and fingers while playing hard, and these dead cells are eventually expelled through the urine.

If you feel unusually tired a day or so after playing hard and/or if your urine looks darker than normal, maybe you've been playing too hard and should chill a bit - or a lot. Eating high protein stuff like fish may help in building back up the number of red blood cells. In extreme cases some hand drummers even get acquired anemia, a weakened condition of the bloodstream, from slamming too long too hard. Not to fear this stuff, just to be aware that it may happen. Some people may experience this a lot, and others hardly at all - I guess we're all different.

I also once shook Giovanni's hand and it didn't feel heavily callused, but did feel to me kind of like the texture of fine sandpaper. But I agree with other posts here that the sounds come from the technique and not from calluses anyway. It's that sharp focus, that whip-like snap, that gives slaps that high, crackling pop (hey, this sounds like Rice Krispies) and this way of striking doesn't need much power at all.

But I still can't help myself and at times will play both long and hard, and get slap-happy too. Also have very rarely peed blood... if it happens again I will chill for a while. Just for a while, though.

Like maSSivedrums says:

Keep on poundin'

:angry: :cool: :D

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Postby jorge » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:01 am

Yoni,
You are exactly right, blood in the urine is caused by broken red blood cells, not by muscle tissue damage. It is free hemoglobin in the blood that leaks through the kidneys, not the actual broken cells. Probably a few red blood cells break every time you hit the drum, but proteins in the blood bind the released hemoglobin when there is not too much of it. When too much hemoglobin is released from broken red cells, you start to get free hemoglobin in the blood. This free hemoglobin then leaks through the kidneys and turns the urine dark. That is why you don't get dark urine after moderate amounts of hard playing.

Unless you play long religious ceremonies and can't use a mic, play softer, or take breaks, this problem can mostly be prevented. Perfecting your technique, using a mic when you have to be heard over amplified instruments, playing a little softer, taking breaks to play other instruments like chequere, bell, claves, guagua, etc, using slightly thinner skins than you might choose based purely on the sound, and using band-aids on your fingers when playing for long periods will each help a bit. Repeatedly having blood in the urine is not healthy, and should serve as a warning to do one or more of the above to prevent it happening again.




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Postby yoni » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:18 am

Very informative, Jorge, thank you! I had no idea about the free hemoglobin stuff.

Taking breaks playing other instruments seems wise... the heads of bongos are often tuned so high and tight - and held traditionally in the low position they may be more dangerous than conga; bongoseros' hands may swell as blood gravitates down into them, causing more chance of breaking blood cells.

So bongo players really HAVE to take a break.

Maybe that's why in Latin bands they are often called "bongo/bell players".
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