the new pecussion scene - Am I alone hating it?

[JohnnyConga]

Hey Tone...Salsa and Timba are 2 Different forms of music.....or don't you know that?...I guess u have never been to New York City..thank you for answering my question...."JC" Johnny Conga...

[JohnnyConga]

Wait a minute how many Tone's are there???.>>"JC" Johnny Conga...

[JohnnyConga]

For those that didn't grow up in NYCity during the 60's 70's DO NOT AND CANNOT speak about the music on any level..why? U WEREN'T THERE!....in defense of my home and history of the city itself, some of the BEST SALSA bands,came out of New York City....and they included Cuban and Puerto Rican musicians....Comparing a "timba" band to the Latin musical history of NYCity, is NO comparison....2 different styles all together...hey Tone74 how old are you, if I may ask?..."JC" Johnny Conga...



Edited By JohnnyConga on 1180571634

[TONE74]

I know the difference! I'm just comparing one to the other since they both have conga players in them and yeah I live on the Jersey side 15 minutes away and have been to many good jams in the city. I also go to Cuba anychance I get and see bands there. I'm the tone with the 74 at the end Cojelo suave papo, no te empingue. No disrespect from me to you or anybody else here.

[JohnnyConga]

Esta bien compadre!.....you have one thing over me..I'm Cuban American and have never been to Havana..only guantanamo bay...which isn't Cuba....maybe one day...i can fulfill that dream....yo necesito una injecion cubano..."JC" Johnny Conga...

[TONE74]

JC I'm 30 and got here when I was about 13 so I missed all that but Ive seen the videos of Fania and all that ( I know is not the same in video ) I also dig the NY charangas from the 70s. I use to catch chico alvares and all that on the radio stations ( good stuff from here on that show ) Have you seen a good Cuban band perform live? La reve, Aragon, etc. La Reve was here in the Latin Quater a few years ago. I guess we cant really compare each of them to salsa because they have their own sound. You can tell whos who without the singer saying a word. ( I know thats inposible here because of economics ) Well anyway I'm off topic and Im not gonna get in it here. I know you wanna school me. I haven't seen a good band in a while can you recomend one here in NY. Something good!

[JohnnyConga]

I have seen Los Van Van , El Medico de la Salsa..and some others....there IS NO comparison from NY bands to Cuban bands..only that they play Latin dance music in a variety of styles....see in Cuba ALL the musicians are Cubans so that "adds" to the "energy' and they ALL have more or less the same musical education, which is lacking here in the U.S...most of the bands when i was coming up never went to any kind of a music school and we mostly learned on our own, in rehearsals....which is a very very hard thing to do....where in Cuba you are supported with free education and you are sent to a very good musical school situation....that is THEIR advantage over us....u cannot replace experience with a degree....and in Cuba u get Both!...."JC" Johnny Conga....

[congamyk]

Hey Tone ..u ever been to NYCity?....there are 1,ooo drummers there...and I could tell you that at least 100, just 100 out of that 1,ooo could do, AND do what Poncho does,everyday too, the difference is the recording contract and that is all.

About the "contract" part - I disagree.

There isn't ANYONE that can do exactly what Poncho does. In my opinion you are discounting his other attributes; he's a band leader, he's an excellent bi-lingual and multi-genre singer and he's an excellent arranger. He is an all-around GREAT musician, not just a conguero. All of these talents add up to having the contract that he has.

Poncho sells records and his music is better than anyone else in his genre. Like Miles Davis, Poncho surrounds himself with the best musicians. There are many intangibles to music and I think this thread sums the many facets of sound. It's more than fast hands and faster rudiments.

I'm sure there are hundreds of guys all over the world emulating Gio and Anga and trying to play faster than anyone else. They probably sit around in thier parents basement and practice conga nerd rudiments for hours and hours just so they can show off in case they EVER GET A GIG.

I'm sure Poncho doesn't have 5 hours a day to practice double rolls faster than anyone when he's counting his money and lining up the best gigs and recordings. Who cares if guys are faster? They have no soul and lack the many other intangibles that make a successful and groovin musician. Poncho is one in a million, he makes good music and has done it for decades. That puts him in a league all his own IMO.



Edited By congamyk on 1180574816

[TONE74]

Yeah JC thats what I meant about economics, they rehearse together all the time and are able to develop their own sound without having to work a day job. Its not really all about the school but about working together constantly. Also they can get more creative because the public over there is more open to different things in my opinion. I heard here the record labels don't like to take chances. The Salseros here have done dam good, Some of the best in the world so I gotta give them that specially the ones that did it without the formal schooling. Peace

[congamyk]

JC I don't know him - except through his music. I'm a relative newcomer to congas since I've only been playing a short time. I started listening to Poncho when I was learning sax in 1989 and had never laid hands on a conga yet. I'm curious your opinions about his music in general aside from conga skills.

(1) what do you think of Ponchos singing ability?

(2) What do you think of his band leadership skills?

(3) What is your opinion of his arrangement skills?

(4) What is your opinion of his ability to assemble players and maintain his musical integrity in the genre known as Latin Jazz over a 30 year period?

[Derbeno]

Re the Mr PG skills you guys are discussing I would not add teaching to that, he should just stick to his day job (the playing) :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNQ3dLJKgro



Edited By Derbeno on 1180629326

[Charangaman]

Good thread!

Totally unimpressed by these exihbitionists..(sp?)...
Where is the flavour?

I guess it's an inevitable side effect of the increased commercialisation of the music and the forces behind that...

Anga, was old skool when I saw him, very subtle, very generous to the musicians around him..Painting a bigger picture...

[GuruPimpi]

Geeez, again that talk. Face it JC, you are talking negative without history facts stated. Tell us more precise about that 'luck' syndrome called Poncho. We werent there, you were, but even your eyes couldn't see the whole picture. I respect you, but reading the whole post, must say that you seem a bit bitter about how conga history turned out... If not, like you also said, you r the man! Than I just don't dig the thing that is about with Poncho.
Poncho Sanchez must have 'that something', whether he has charisma or just a friendly and warm talk, I don't know, but trust me, you can be a real 'Paganinni' or Giovanni and if you act and treat others like they are minor to you, you are gone and will be propably appreciated by your work after you pass away. Or not, being in music bussines takes a lot more than just brilliant soloing, tight Groovin' and smiling to people... Much more... and staying humble with that--- true wisdom...

my 2 cents,

Pimpi

[TONE74]

Derbeno, I started playing a short while ago and learned the basic tumbao from that video of Poncho, did it for a while then had to re-learn my manoteo all over again. There are a lot of comments on there ( youtube ) against anyone who goes against what he says but I'll stick to the way I re-learned it. People automatically assume you are hating on the guy when you say anything other than praises.

[Derbeno]

Derbeno, I started playing a short while ago and learned the basic tumbao from that video of Poncho, did it for a while then had to re-learn my manoteo all over again. There are a lot of comments on there ( youtube ) against anyone who goes against what he says but I'll stick to the way I re-learned it. People automatically assume you are hating on the guy when you say anything other than praises.

One of the mysteries of his technique is why is he advocating this ridiculous rocking heel/tip motion when he models himself on Mongo. This just gives two tones sounding virtually similar as opposed to the base/toe which should produce two distinct sounds. Relearning is a bugger, a bit like changing the way you pronounce a word. Good on ya!

I agree that Poncho is a good player, great he is not. Like in sports, academia, art etc it does not mean that if you are good or even a virtuoso you can teach.



Edited By Derbeno on 1180675114