the new pecussion scene - Am I alone hating it?

[bdrbongo]

LIfe is too short...I LOVE to play the drums...ket, conga, frame, whatever...either you like to listen to Gio's speed or you don't. Sometimes i'm in the mood for flash, sometimes I just want to enjoy some nice rhythms. I will NEVER be as fast as Gio, I'm ok with that. I have seen him do some things that I like. I will never be like Patato, I ok with that, too. I like the way he tunes melodically and used that for a while. I am Sean Anglin, not Gio or 'Anga' or Patato...or Pancho. I try to absorb as much as I can from whoever I can. Hopefully I can make people happy with MY style of playing..a little flash, and a LOT of groove.

[bdrbongo]

I DO need to learn whow to use the bold key though...

[Mike]

Good one, Sean, and fundamentally right, take as much as you can from the greats, but BE YOURSELF ! Now that was bold, wasn´t it :;):
Well, but I´m dead serious on that.
Wow my 300th post... Let´s celebrate



Edited By Mike on 1180705681

[Charangaman]

Drinks all round.. Make mine a Mojito!

[Mike]

Hey, Charangaman, I´d love to join you for a Caipirinha 30 posts of yours later ! :laugh:
First round on me...



Edited By Mike on 1180707615

[pavloconga]

I dont know a lot about this but I dont get the magic of Giovanny. I dont know but to me Giovanny is a mix of other conga players the stuff that he does I seen someone else do before he got speed but so what. I just saw the one he did with " El negro" and saw his nails grown like tata and then he does the same things as him.

Hi Tone74,
Just want to respond to yr comment about Giovanni (not that he really needs me to come to his defense!).

In my view I think you are missing something about the man. Sure Gio plays a lot of fast chops - especially in those 'virtuoso' style shows, because he can and he always has that to draw on (but usually does it with incredible taste).

I don't know how much you've seen him play in a band context but the man is truly phenomenal! (imho). In case you haven't seen him in that context have a look at him holding a solid laid back groove then take it to a stratospheric level with his solo with Tito Puente on the song 'New Arrival' in the doco 'Calle 54'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRGwYpnd99Q

His solos in that music piece are not only tasteful, exciting and complementary to the music, they are awe inspiring, (again, it's my opinion), energetic and powerful and make me almost think he's either gonna break the skins or smash those tubs! The way he articulates all the different sounds (slaps, tones, muffs etc) is also of the highest level.

Giovanni is his own player and plays HIS style and I truly believe he is one of the greatest living masters of the congas today.

cheers & regards
Pavlo



Edited By pavloconga on 1180787816

[CongaTick]

Yep! Nuff said.

[bongo]

Got to say, I respect all the players; what they offer is their self, their skill, their creative vision. As Buddy Rich said, "take it or leave it" ....

It's your right if you want to put Giovanni down, but
he is ok with me.

[TONE74]

You know what after going back and reading my post I gotta admit I was too hard on the guy. I posted that after an argument with a friend about who is the greatest and to me there is no greatest ( like a yankees or the mets type of thing ). Pavlo, I have seen the video (calle 54), I had it since it came out there is a lot of good music in there. I believe he is an awsome conguero and I give him his props but Im not crazy about him like everybody else.

[Paqui]

>> but Im not crazy about him like everybody else

@TONE74

I'm not crazy about him either. Maybe we share the same vision... ???

Like you, I'm in the process of learning to play congas and I have watched countless of conga videos, and
I can tell you that none of Giovanni's videos has taught me much [One-on-one, On the tradition, etc.,]
except "The evolution of the tumbadoras" where Changuito desmonstrates a few good tricks to know about hand position and exercises. BTW, in this last mentioned video, IMO, I don't think the Giovanni shows that he's a humble guy. He only mentions that Changuito taught him a few movements which he used to develop his own style when I have read and heard that Giovanni is who he is today thanks to Changuito and other Cuban mentors, and that he is probably the non-Cuban percussionist who have spent the longest time in Cuba learning Afro-Cuban percussion.

I truly think tha Giovanni is a great percussionist, but definitely not the greatest conguero on planet Earth. Why? He has mastered the congas, he has developed his own unique style, he is fast and clean, but so have/are others. Futhermore, I don't feel anything when I watch him playing. I'd love to experience that feeling of inspiration from him as I do from others such as Anga R.I.P.,Tata güines, Tito Puentes R.I.P., Ray Barretto, Changuito, Mongo, Patato, Los Papines, Los Muñequitos, Roena, etc., but I don't...It's like comparing Salsa to Son Montuno; I still don't get what's difference between them. I love Fania's music, but I don't feel or hear what's so new in their music when you compare it to the music of those who were there before such as Machito, Tito Rodriguez, Benny more, Arsenio, etc.

I may be thinking diffently 10 years from now about Giovanni, but right now I just want to learn to play congas and feel the clave to make music to feed my soul and stay healthy.

It's ashame that most people think that all there is to play in clave is the Salsa of Marc Anthony, India, Victor Mannuel and a few new bands that have recently formed. They all sound the same. That is, if you remove the singer you don't know what band is playing. That's what sets bands such as Reve, Gran Combo, Van Van, the old Oscar d' León's band, Manolito y su trabuco, Cachete Maldonado, Salsa Picante, and others apart from the multitude.

Like Johnnyconga says, "You can be a good conga player, but it doesn't make you a good teacher."

Peace!

Paqui

[Charangaman]

I certainly agree about the "instructional" movies, Giovanni shows me nothing but supersonic chops whereas Anga's movie was personal and he broke down his solo's...

[Raymond]

This topic got interesting....Couple of comments!

1 - Agree with JC about the "luck" of some. Hey guys....like in every business...20% is talent and 80% is marketing and relationship. Is who you know and how you sell yourself. In every aspect of life, you have superbly talented people who never make it or never go any further because they don't want to go too far or don't have the luck or are not in the right time or the right moment. Also, you have people who are greatly talented and make it anyway without any help because people help them.... Simple as that! I don't think he's putting down anybody. What he explains is what you realize after several years of experience and is applicable to anything in life!

This is not taking away from anybody but is important all the factors, and many more, to be succesful and recognizable in a business!

Believe it or not...guys like Giovanni and Richie Flores had to get out of Puerto Rico and move to the states to start getting recognition....They did the move....I've heard these guys were misunderstood by some when they were let loose in their youth in salsa bands...Luck? Marketing? Talent? Nice personalities? All involved....

I know one conguero, famous now and mentioned here, that is in a marketing frenzy! I get his e-mails of what he is doing! Not taking away from him because he is outstanding but he is a good example and I've seen him evolutioned on this . I met this guy 15 years ago playing with a "folkloric ballet" in Bayamon, very humble, I know there was something special about his playing...Then two years later I saw him in a recording studio by a major Puerto Rico artist and in the booth they were complaining about his style of playing and how different his tumbaos were and that were not suitable for the type of playing....(Heard the same stories about Giovanni). This conguero has done his work, he is a great reader, and very knowleagle....Next move...he starts playing with a famous salsa/jazz pianist, the same one who got other percussionist the recognition, and he was a great hit...He moved to the states for awhile, move here and there, played with everybody, continue studying, etc, etc, and he started climbing in fame and recognition and now after a Grammy nomination, he still working on trying to get the "dream".... There are others like him....He is a good example of what it takes...Some luck...Some chops...Some hard work...Some sacrifices...Is a combination...

The same is with groups....I am not a great fan of El Gran Combo...I think they are dull and have become more dull with years...Their success? Longevity, hard work, various hits, luck, etc, etc, Not taking away from them but they were better bands, and are better bands, than them....They created a cult, now they are "Puerto Rico's" band and you have to give them credit for that....The best??? No. They are not. For me, Sonora Poncena is more band and more fun to listten and watch musically....El Gran Combo doesn't take risks it has a "niche market" and the same is with everything in life, gentlemen and ladies....

Others in my company Pearl is obvious is marketing and being in the right place at the right time and doing some things people did not want to do like getting in rock bands and keeping playing salsa, etc, etc,....Is that what it takes guys... There is no formula....

2 - Don't compare salsa with timba...Different...The 70s scene of salsa in NY was powerful and it was a time the genre was KING. So big that guys like Tito Puente had to play along....You had to be there to understand how big it was. Timba is a great thing. Believe it or not, NY, PR and Cuba percussionists admire each other and share things....They listened to each other and admit they cannot do what the others do.

Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors because not everybody likes all the flavors...Some are liked more, some are more popular, some might not taste right to others but they are liked a lot more people...Human condition.....The same with music, musicians and everything in life!

The complaints you hear from musicians from this side is that Cuban musicians have a problem playing "afincao" or in ensemble...They are filling everything they can...Cuban musicians say that PR and NY musicans do not take chances...At the end, although there is rivarly and respect, they like each others' stuff...

Timba has enjoyed the fact that Cuba is not concerned with commercialism...There is artistic freedom. Salsa in the 70s started like that eventually commercialism got in the way and we got stuck, the boom faded and we are still stucked with the same thing.... I see Timba as the most likely way of evolution salsa should have gone but it has not worked that way in this side because commercialism.

Here is a whole dollar!

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1181053117

[Paqui]

Cuban musicians have a problem playing "afincao" or in ensemble...They are filling everything they can...Cuban musicians say that PR and NY musicans do not take chances

Good post Raymond!!

But, could you please explain the above to me? --I'm new in this scene man!

[congamyk]

I don't believe in luck when it comes to music.

Wining the lottery once is luck.

I believe music is about hard work and skill. If a guy listens to everyone he can, works hard by practicing alot and then markets and networks himself day after day without letting up, that's all hard work. If he gets out and meets people and sells himself, his skills and personality that's not luck - it's called a CAREER.

Poncho Sanchez' success has nothing to do with luck. He works hard, surrounds himself with the best musicians, arranges and sings lead in his band. That is pure talent in MANY forms. To do it over several decades is not luck or being in the right place at the right time. Winning the lottery once is luck. Selling hit records and headlining concerts decade after decade is skill.

Only real art lasts, everything else fades away. Poncho has been doing it for decades and his following has only grown.

On a side note my all-around favorite percussionist is Jose Luiz Quintana. That guy is an organic rhythm machine.



Edited By congamyk on 1181153140

[tfunk]

Congamyk,
I completely agree with you on the Poncho Sanchez thing. I've got his recordings and seen him live a number of times. He is a true talent, who I think made his own "luck", by being consistent...doing great music and spreading his sound to the masses. I, for one, also love the way he brings different forms, like soul & funk into the Latin Jazz idiom.

My favorite conga players, Chembo, Mongo, Poncho, Master Henry Gibson, Anga, Candido. But I love anyone who get lay down a soulful groove.

tfunk