Help in Soloing

[JohnnyConga]

Where i come from "Da Bx"(Bronx) "chops" means Power. A riff is one bar statement of a pattern. A "snippet" is a short interlude of music or rhythm. A flam combo is just what it is a flam pattern in combination. Hope this helps...At your Service..JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[JohnnyConga]

I would also like to state that,speed is just one aspect of hand drumming. It's really about the conversation you have with it and self expression through improvisation and knowledge of rhythms,in combination. ....At yaour Service.. JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[KingKongas]

I do appreciate all the replies to this post! I've been taking an Afro-Cuban percussion class now for about a year and have some basic feel and knowledge of several rhythms. I agree that not all solos or parts "fit" with every rhythm. What I've tried to do is to isolate solos from any given musician into a single track and just loop that over and over and practice to that for a while. This way I can get the solo practice against the backdrop of the rhythm of the music. I like to use Poncho Sanchez as it seems that he sorta repeats his solo pieces twice before going to another solo pattern. Helps a lot! But of course, it's not a one-size (solo)-fits-all mentality. But if I hear that rhythm again I have a solo in mind when the solo time comes.

When it comes to soloing... does everyone out there have a solo in mind or is it all spontaneous? A drummer in my class says he thinks about a solo pattern beforehand and another drummer says... just play whatever feels and sounds good according to the rhythm being played. The latter drummer is much better than the former which may have something to do with his solo approach. Just curious.

I'd like to know more about what does practicing the 2s and 3s mean? Is there some basic pattern(s) that are involved?

Thanks for clearing up chops, flams, snippets, etc.

[JohnnyConga]

2's and 3's are repeated phrases- repeated either twice or three times in successesion. Keeping it all in clave which are 5 beats covered over in a 2 bar phrase.....soloing should be spontaneous/improvisational. Very rarely does or is a a Conga solo ever written,just the same for any other instrument in a solo situation unless it's a Symphonic piece where some solos for some instruments are written....at your Service... JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[muddy323]

I like sloppy solo's. Timing is the key here. I find out, my solo's can be sloppy and if the timing is right, it sound like a very good solo. My theroy is SLOPPY is better with perfect timing. They will think you are a great soloist. I been fooling them for years. My solo's is emotion,timing and sloppy as I can make them.

[JohnnyConga]

Hey Muddy the only person that';s "sloppy" is you. Please have more respect for the instrument your trying to learn and the music and the "elders" that make a living out of it. "Sloppy" is just what YOUR CREATING!.......At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[muddy323]

JohnyConga....U didn't have dump on me like that...i know my solo's are sloppy But! my timing is great. My sloppy solo's is like color. Im all over the place.Im like jazz, & freedom. I change timing and signatures like the time of day. I love the drum since 1976. Im sorry that i dont live in your perfect world of rhythm and notes. My world is emotion and sound. You think Giovanni think about structure. He is freedom and that is what a solo is. FREEDOM.....

P.S...im not learning this instrument. This is experimental in sound at this point



Edited By muddy323 on Jan. 09 2003 at 05:19

[JohnnyConga]

Hey Muddy ...I wish you well with your "sloppy free solos"......they call it "experimental' here in Seattle. But what your doing is not new by no means. Ever hear of "Big Black"? All the best, ps my world is not perfect by any means and Giovanni is a very "structered" soloist.....At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[KingKongas]

I have to admit to being a little confused at the term "sloppy". Unless it's a term of the moment I cant see any help in being "sloppy" about drumming. Sorry Muddy you lost me there. Hopefully we will all be positive after all is said and done.

I've been practicing alot with a book I bought about conga improvisations (solos). It may be too basic for an advance drummer but it has definitely helped me to "see" (using music charts) while at the same time "feel" (listening) where a solo begins in relation to say the downbeat or within a guaguanco.

Hey JC... I too grew up in the Bronx, born and raised, and that is where my music roots began! Who knows, I've probably seen or heard you play back in the day! I've been listening to music all my life and have gravitated to drumming quite naturally. Thus I play alot by feel and by ear. However, having gotten into drumming again and being a little perfectionist means wanting to learn as much as possible from anyone who can teach me something about the techniques and technicalities of drumming as well as the history that is shared on this site. That said, I appreciate this site and forum tremendously!!!

[muddy323]

I like latin jazz, where you can be sloppy in your world and nobody cares,long as you dont drop the time. Time shifting is what i like with no boundries. Salsa crews are too confining for me. I dont like to stay in the pocket. So i get fired alot. I have more freedom with HipHop & latin jazz crews.
Its always good to read music,study your video's and different rhythm and timing. But my solo's are still a sloppy mix of mumbo gumbo of all music i've study and performed. I hear music the way i want to hear it and I play what i feel, and that freedom have been working for me.
Baretto & Poncho Sanchez solo's have that freedom. Giovanni solo's are in a world of there own.

[yoni]

I also like to solo free and fool around with the time, it's why I lean more toward the jazz end of Latin music. Not to knock the traditionalists by any means, it's just a matter of taste.

I find I solo best when not thinking at all, when the music comes through me instead of from me. This doesn't happen as often as I want in performance, but I'm "working" on it.

I enjoy when my soloing feels like it's rebounding off the music, kind of like a pinball bounces around a pinball machine - all kinds of random stuff happens, but the pinball keeps its bounce -

unless it slips through the flippers and you drop the time.

Oops!

We're all human.



Edited By yoni on Mar. 20 2003 at 13:09

[benbaboon]

This thread was real interesting to read.
I have to agree with JC that sloppy is a negative term when it comes to playing music, and if you play sloppy, please be kind to the rest of us and keep it in your garage. Sloppy means you do things you shouldn't.... drift in timing or put notes where they don't belong in the musical context at hand.

That said, I agree with muddy that traditional salsa context can be confining (although there's much legit syntax available to those who know the language). I think if your time is dead on and your drumming works well in the jazz and experimental contexts, freeform and expressionist are much better terms to describe you style....

back to the original KingKongas point.... here's my approach to soloing:
riffs that come back into the rhythm are lots of fun.. they add variety and taste to your music...and most teachers should be able to get you going on a few.
but since I perform primarily for the entertainment of my wife and dog... I often like going into longer soloing runs. For those I recommend asking your teacher to show you various phrases common to afrocuban soloing.... don't worry about putting them together and don't worry about fitting them on the music.... yet.

Next step is listen, listen and listen some more.....until you're really familiar with the style and definitely at least until you can comfortably come back in at any time, in time and in clave with the rhythm "official" pattern.

Lots of great recordings out there that'll demonstrate how the soloing phrases are used by the great, and you should be able to at least nail down how things sit down tempowise.
So for now, until you can count 16 bars while soloing (which is pretty darn difficult in my book), you can work some soloing over the music... and because you'll know where the rhythm is you can end it with a short pause, a couple of filler notes to finish the bar, or going into a riff whose ending point is known to you.

Hope this helps.... have fun!

[yoni]

Yep, I also agree with Johnny Conga that the word "sloppy" sounds negative. Maybe that's not exactly what muddy meant - I bet his solos aren't sloppy at all.

I love to stretch out and play with the time... I'm in music to PLAY it, to enjoy, and I can't do that if I feel too confined.

But in any soloing that involves tempo (one can also play abstractly with no tempo if it fits in the music or their mood), whether the solo is more choppy or flowing, whether you shift time signatures or not - GROOVE IS KING!

As is already obvious:

The more you do it (listen and play), the better you get.



Edited By yoni on Mar. 20 2003 at 13:08

[JohnnyConga]

The reason some forms of Latin music is constricting is because it's "dance" music....hello!......in that I mean when your in a latin band it's all about the groove and not to be "selfish" in your playing. YOU PLAY FOR THE PEOPLE!. Your pulse on the drum is what makes people move. Create a strong pulse in your playing and see how it effects the feet on people, they will start to move. That is the "first theory" on playing Latin music. So don't be 'selfish" in your playing,.As my first bandleader Felipe "Phil" Diaz from the Latin Jazz Quintet taught me,"Until it's time to make your "statement", you play time, until it's your time, to express yourself", and I'll tell you when that is". He was great, I learned a lot from him. Soloing is something that takes a lot of time to develop as a player. Starting out I would concern myself with just being a good "timekeeper" and play as "perfectly" as possible. A "perfect" tumbao "everytime"!....At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA......

[yoni]

Yes Johnny - your point of not being selfish with playing is so important. Yeah, the bigger the band, the cooler I try to keep it, 'til it's my turn. And perfection - it's a real "definite" instrument, as a teacher once told me - if we drummers are not dead-on with precision, you sure hear it!

By the way I am honored to meet you and all here. I am very happy I heard of this great site where thoughts, ideas and music is shared. Viva musica!

yoni