timing - matter of practice?

[Kari-Matti]

I was just wondering, do you people think about timing. Is it just a matter of practice or is it something that your born with (or without). And what's the best method to practice timing? Some people say that one should do everything in the beat of metronome, like washing dishes etc. I don't know if it works, haven't tried, but I would like to hear other methods?

[Raymond]

Timing is practice and is acquired with experience unless you are a natural.

In my experience, you have to play along with records, play with live groups and have the experience to "feel the beat" of everybody in the rhythm section. A metronome will turn you a little bit mechanic. The most important thing is to work on controling yourself, developing in your instrument and most of all play in ensemble.

In salsa groups, there are people that cannot play because they cannot "tie or glue" themselves to the rest of the rhythms section. To make things work you also have a "clave" to be concerned with.

At the beginning all this might sound complicated but after awhile it will come natural.. You will immediately identify who is out of timing...you or the rest...

Practice, experience, proficiency in your instrument, making mistakes and learning from them, avoiding the mistakes of others, etc, is what is going to give you the sense of timing....

I hope this helps....

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1077635291

[Johnny Conga]

Great advice Raymond,not much to add to that. Except if you don't have "natural" timing then it must be "acquired" thru practice. Just try to start taping your foot while you play tumbao, just start there. Get your body into it,don't be a "cold" player. The conga drum requires a lot of discepline when it comes to laying down the rhythms and maintaining them, in a musical context. Also remember that the drum is built around "dance rhythms". So play to all kinds of dance music with your drum and practice along with the music as Raymond said.....my 3 cents...JC JOHNNY CONGA... :;):

[muddy323]

Miles Davis said this to his nephew, when he fired him from band: ITS NOTHING LIKE A TIME DROPPING DRUMMER...timing is everything...some have it from birth...most is self taught

[Simon B]

In Latin styles it is a good idea to sing the clave out aloud over patterns you are playing - helps 'internalise' the pulse. I agree with Raymond about the metronome. Can be too mechanistic. Not along ago I read about a musicologist who published research about time in jazz music, specifically the idea of 'swing'. He found that with those drummers who were meant to 'swing' the most - far from playing in totally equalised time - were in fact speeding up and slowing down, extending and compressing the rhythm, the more dramatically. This is not to say that over an eight bar section they started at 120bpm, and ended up at 140 - rather that their variations were within short sections, and in the long run their pulse was still very constant. I think Latin music is very similar in this respect - a good percussionist knows when to drag, knows when to slur between time signatures for dramatic and highly rhythmic effect, teasing the listener.

Simon B

[Fish]

I believe Miles Davis said at one point that if you have to ask what jazz is, you're never going to know (or something like that) and I think the same sort of thing applies to clave. It's not enough to know the clave pattern or even to be able to clap it perfectly - what you really need to do is feel it when you play. I agree with Simon in that singing the clave pattern (or tapping it with your foot) while playing is really helpful. Also playing to recordings where you know where the clave is and listening to what the players do there.

[yoni]

I guess timing is something like other aspects of music... sometimes getting a good sound out of an instrument is just as hard as timing... my old man once told me a little story of a Japanese shakuhachi (flute) master he met in New York... who got a beautiful sound from some bass shakuhachi - very hard to get sound from...

The master had spent 8 years in some cave in Japan perfecting his sound. My pops tried and tried but couldn't get one note from that flute... My dad finally asked, "Okay, what's the secret?"

The master replied: "The more you do it, the better you get".

We all have things that come easier to us, but really getting timing or other musical aspects down is probably just like any skill... the more you do it, the better you get!

As well as relaxation, playing along with CDs or radio, if not in bands, is a good way to work on timing, and more fun than a metronome.

[Raymond]

I think the best way to internalize the clave is by been exposed to everything in latin music. (That includes Cuban son, timba, boleros, "sepia"/rumba, etc, etc). It helps having somebody to be there and tell you when you are not in clave. It was easy for me because I grew up with the genre and it comes naturally to me or at least I think so. I think my theory could be correct, because you have a lot of non latinamericans learning how to dance salsa, and pretty good, and one of the things they are forced to learn and be aware of is "the clave." If they do it, why a beginner percussionist cannot do it?

I am believer that certain things you have to allow it to come natural and not be too much aware of them because you could become mechanic. Like Bruce Lee said in Enter the Dragon...."Don't think.....Feel!!!!!!!!). Remember, latin rhythms are syncopated for a reason....They have a swing to it and dynamics is important and you could only achieve that by doing with "others" and feeling it. (Others could be a record....Once you dominate that you should go with a group. You will notice a difference....the records has a "steady" pace and playing live does not...).

Playing live is a challenge and it takes practice. There are certain dynamics you have to be aware. There is a term among musicians that is called in Spanish "dizzyness" (mareo). That is when the songs changes tempo without anybody realizing it back and forth. Sometimes, there are parts of the song/arrangements that you have to be careful because all of the sudden you might find yourself either "speeding it up" or "slowing it up." It sounds difficult but is practice and exposure...

More info...I hope it does not give you a headache!

Saludos!

[Johnny Conga]

Never heard that term relating to Latin music-"mareo". Sounds more like Timba to me. When they change "gears" in the middle of a tune.....hey learn something everyday I say....JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[Raymond]

Johnny,

I've heard it by some people that I have played with..."Mareo" and is when there when the "tempo" of the song changes "without been noticed". Normally, happens that somebody in the rhythm section either slows down or speeds up and one by one of the persons in the rhythm section starts following him/her. Mareo does not happen until there have been a couple of changes during the same performance.

I've heard the term also by record producers when they explain why a "clip track" is used in recording to keep everybody in timing and avoid "mareos."

Saludos!