6/8 patternORIGIN OF THE 6/8 TIME SIGNATURE

[James M]

I've seen there CDs but have been afraid to by them only to be really disappointed.

[congastu]

Well , like most things, its not all great, but when it works, it really does work. Mind you, Ive always been a sucker for that stuff. [ old mans a gypsy- never went anywhere without singing and strumming, and we used to get around some, too!]

[percomat]

the phonetics is a very interesting aspect of learning, there is to many that just beats the drums ( :angry: ). i heard once that tablasplayers wasnt allowed to touch their instruments before they could sing the patterns they would play. the story now says 5 years of learning this, but maybe that is something i found up myself! if anyone got a good reference on this subject i would be glad ??? i also wondered about sulsbrucks "from head to body", is it a book or what? this is for me a very interesting relationship, it reminds me about what is said as improvised, and what is planned. the first seems to be kind of a higher lever than the other, people seem to talk about it as something more real? but isn`t everything in a way planned? and do the improvisation out of thin air exist? the process mentioned above, from head to body, can seem to touch this distinction, as Descartes and Merleau-Ponty.. ok, i guess I`ve asked enough for today.. :laugh:

[congastu]

Thats why I think phonetics are so important- they encourage articulation, the ability to internalise rhythm as a second language. Lets face it, we dont have to study ourselves every time we say something- sometimes it will just come out. I think Don Alias once said he would look at others before getting up to jam to see if they really " spoke the language of drums". Its one thing having a large vocabulary, quite another to put all those words together in a poetic and eloquent form.
Phonetics really help as they enable us to break rhythms down into phrases. Once you can sing something in your head, all you have to do is transfer this to the body. Then, its a matter of repetition until the phrasing becomes second nature. Repetition can also be aural, listening to, studying and absorbing the styles and methods you have access to. After that, if youre "in the zone", you might find that sometimes all those things come out in your improvisations. Its the same words, but the sentence and meaning is your own so that essentially it goes beyond thought and comes from the subconscious, which is a different matter again from showing the whites of your eyes and hoping it fits. [ I once described this way of playing as "paddling" to a young student, and she turned round and said "I want to learn how to swim, not paddle!"]
Peace and love, Stu

[congastu]

PS: for a really good site with lots of notation and background to west African percussion, check out http://www.wappages.info

[percomat]

seems like a great page. but i couldn`t find any rumba patterns, maybe they have a different name here? i`ve been interested a while in how the rumba development in west africa went, obviosly its the same roots as the cuban, i wonder if it`s similarities in how they play rumba f. ex. in congo today? i guess they have been influenced a lot from cuba to, like the timba, songo and salsa has.

[congastu]

I think Ill have to pass this one on to Zaragemca. Those African rumba styles, almost certainly influenced by the Cuban music of the 50s onwards are more common in E. Africa [Kanda Bongoman, Remmy Ongala etc,etc] which Im not so familiar with. When you listen to them, however, they seem to suggest more of a calypso feel, with the one bar clave running through them. While not stated, a lot of West African rhythms, such as Kuku, can also have that feel. In Gambia, I even used to hang out with a Mandinka troupe called Roots Calypso, whose line up would include dunduns, bougarabous, congas and normally only one djembe. The style of playing the congas, however, was much more like the bougarabou than any traditional Cuban techniques.

[percomat]

its probably a very big question anyway. i found an adress, http://www.leopardmannen.no, if its of any interest. i visited gambia for 5 or 6 years ago, but i didn`t play to much. however i fell in love with the talking drum after seeing yousso ndours concert in banjol or bakau, one of my greates concert expirences, but i dont remember which city, i lived in both, but both of my tamas is now broken. a friend of mine have one from ghana, which is bigger, and feels a bit more comfortable to play...

[congastu]

I bet that was some concert! Was it Assan Thiam on the tama? that guy iis crazy- all the stuff he does, and all with a big smile on his face!

[zaragemca]

The case is that we already know that those cultures were influenced by the Yorubas becouse the sophistication,but they didn't have deep knowlege of it(none of those culture knew what a Bata was,or how to play them,until the Cuba's folkloric Troup start touring the world including Africa, playing and Dancing),becouse the Yorubas in Nigeria never tryed to make a show out of that,and even in Cuba when the elderly people were alive nobody could take a Bata to play in a Conjunto,or a Band, so in the 50's they did it here in the U.S.A. which was far from Cuba.



Edited By zaragemca on 1080675304

[Johnny Conga]

Zara I'm confused ...are you saying the Yorubas didn't play Bata, until they saw the Cubans? If that is the case that is not true. The Bata as you know comes from Nigeria. No they never made it a show cause it is a "religion" and wasn't into taking it around the world like the Cubans did. JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[zaragemca]

JC,I'm talking about those Civilization around the Yorubas,the Ewes-Fulanis,Araras, Carabalies,etc.

[Johnny Conga]

Ok , I got it now. Gracias....JC JOHNNY CONGA.........

[James M]

Below is a computational mathematician's take on clave
(the bossa nova clave he gives is incorrect)
http://cgm.cs.mcgill.ca/~godfried/publications/sevilla.pdf

Also of interest
http://cgm.cs.mcgill.ca/~godfried/cuba.html

[percomat]

hey james l, this seems like a great article, thanks. are you a musicologist? if yes, what are you writing about? and congastu, yes indeed, it was one of the top 3 concerts ì`ve been to. the audience, the mood and the whole band. i don`t know the name of the tamaplayer, but he was pretty short, and yes he was smiling all the time, and played like i`ve never seen before.

i have as usual another question too, maybe you guys could help me. what i fell in love with concerning rumba was the seemingly chaotic expression, but i still knew that what i heard was rumba, why? every part goes in each other, the forms played are very strong but still very dynamic. my first thing to make order was the clave, then the open salidor strokes on 3-and, and the open tresdos at 1, then the bass-stroke on to-and, plus the cascara figure. but now i`ve heard so much different rumba, supermodern, traditional, and it is still rumba? (can we talk about more "rules", or maybe a special feel?)