Roll Control - Help

[JohnR]

Anyone have any tips for roll control besides the standard "start slow and practice, practice, practice" ? ? ?

There must be a secret or two lying deep within someone out there.

:p

[Raymond]

What do you mean with "roll control"?

Saludos!

[Ivan]

Johnny hipped me to the "pull and bounce" technique for rolls... Giovanni does this all the time. It's feels as if you are pushing and pulling the conga head towards you... The pull and bounce (Correct me if I am wrong JC or anybody else) is bouncing method... First your palm hits the drum then natural motion will make your fingers hit next hence the "pull and bounce" method. Hit helps to keep elbows some what tucked in or really close to your torso...

I am not gonna lie... with PRACTICE you will get better at controlling your rolls. Unfortunately, without it we would not have some of the best congueros in the world... :;):

Good Luck.

[Johnny Conga]

Like I have shown Ivan...you start out slow with rolls, eventually building up speed. then when that begins to feel comfortable start "press rolls", which is "pushing" the roll even faster then slowing down to an "even" roll again. The "pulling" back of the hands off the edge of the head, will create an natural "bounce" and can create the "double rolls", which is the techniqiue Gio and others use, and is a popular approach. I heard that Roberto Quintero has a new DVD out. Has anybody got it, or seen it yet?......JC JOHNNY CONGA.... :;):

[Raymond]

Got it...(I think). Is not easy to do but I guess with practice you can do it. I've tried it but I guess I have not dedicated myself to do it...(more bongosero and timbalero than conguero).

Seen this kid doing it, that ocassionally plays with me in some gigs, and he is pretty good.!

I guess the new kids are doing it!

Saludos!

[JohnR]

By roll control, I meant the ability to keep it smooth, control volume and speed at will, staying or coming back in time, using a certain number of strokes when you want , eg a 9-stroke or 11-stroke at a certain point, etc.

Actually, I was most concerned with the single stroke rolls. The double stroke rolls have always seemed easier for me than the singles for some reason.

A friend of mine visited last night who has a very smooth well-sustainable single stroke roll. I asked him to sustain some rolls while I studied his movements carefully and saw that he was using virtually no arm movement whatsoever. This seems to go along with Ivan's recommendation of keeping the elbows close in.

Since the double stroke rolls have seemed easier, I payed attention to my own doubles and noticed that my arm movement is minimal and most action is coming from hands and wrist.

Does this sound right to those of you with advanced single stroke rolls?



Edited By JohnR on 1090185719

[Simon B]

For me my single stroke rolls - when quick - are almost all relaxed wrist movement, so what you are talking about sounds fine. My doubles use more arm movement: this is inevitable it seems to me if you are using the 'palm-drop' method - the arms sort of spoon in and out, and you have to clip the second stroke as you are retracting from the first; but certainly this movement becomes smaller the quicker you go.

When using slower single stroke rolls, however, I put more arm movement into it - this is because the sound becomes more wholesome. Just as a double stroke doesn't sound quite as pure as an open tone, a quick wrist single doesn't catch like the 'thwock' of a raised arm single.

For me the key to good rudiments is using the tumbadores' natural practice pads - first the knees, second any other surface, particularly tables. Many people have commented on the noise from the bathroom as I sit engaged in practice, and my pupils at school love my table-top displays. I am sure that I have spent much more time soloing and phrasing to records I am listening to off rather than on conga skins. As a Cuban friend says to me, if you can do rudiments on a solid table-top, your hands will have no problem adapting to the more forgiving animal skins. Congas are far more conveniant than stick-based percussion instruments in this regard.

One more point - don't practice rolls to a metronome, practice to records/cds, as Johnny Conga has long said. Far better to pick up feel and musical structures than mechanical bleeps alone.

Simon B

[JohnR]

Thanks, Simon. Very helpful.

I am trying to use both your tips by starting with just wrist and then adding a little arm gradually to build volume. It sounds good when I can get it smooth, but I am going to need some practice to get consistency. When I get it, then I will try the reverse. I think it will be a nice affect.

Still open to more more suggestions.

[Simon B]

One thing that a number of acomplished congueros suggest is to keep the thumb against the forefinger when playing any stroke, rather than letting the thumb wander outwards. For me this seems to add power and accuracy. Some players also feel better with the fingers together and arguably there is a more 'pure tone to be created this way. For me, though (and I think for most), this seems to make things too rigid and just doesn't feel right.

All the best with your practice!

Simon

[CongaCaja]

Simon's comment makes sense.

As we all should remember, drums (of both hands and sticks) are instruments of basic mechanics. Keeping the thumb close the the fingers reduces the degrees of freedom and thus allows the hand to move as a single entity and thus more efficiently.

Mental image:
imagine swinging a baseball bat that is almost broken in half. The two parts are still contected but the upper part is loosely connected to the lower (handle). Now, imagine swinging this broken bat (back and forth). Do you think it will be easier or more difficult to swing than a new (unbroken) bat? I think that most will agree that it would l be more difficult.

However, that said, pushing the fingers tightly together can be counter productive if it creates tension in the forearm which slows the motion with respect to kinesiology.

So, generally, efficient (drumming) motion seems to be a balance of mechanics and kinesiology.

cjk

[montezuma]

Hellow!
I'm looking for someone who play on Handsonic Hpd-15. Is there any special technic of playing. I bought it last week and I'm really suprrise! My someone could give some tips?

[Isaac]

FINGERS TOGETHER or SLIGHTLY APART?
One of my teachers was the late Luis Andino from
Cuba. He got me to keep my thumbs close to the hand,
not out . This aided in bracing your hand for more control.
As far as keeping the fingers together he also suggested that.
However when he did it there was no tension whatsoever.
It should be relaxed above all. Others told me to keep them looser and very slightly apart. If you have the type of hand
that's more relaxed and comfortable with your finger
slightly apart - that's OK for you. It spreads the sound out
across the head differently though. Try it both ways
and hear the difference. It may be good to know both
and when to use each different sound.
~ ISAAC ~
Funky Tradition
Rep. for JCR BELLS / SKINS
funkytradition@yahoo.com