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Posted: **Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:57 pm**

When doing a tumbao, heel - toe, is heel done with your whole palm like a bass tone or just with the bottom part of your palm?

Posted: **Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:10 am**

Dear Jerry A,
Yes there IS a difference between the sounds produced by the heel and the fingertips on a tumbadora. More importantly, there is a difference in the musical flow produced by these two different kinemes. Kinetic flow, whether it produces ANY sound whatsoever, is essential for African-derived music. If you study the excellent transcriptions in the conga book on this site, you should find that these two strokes may be used seperately or in any order to produce a variety of timberal effects. Again, the kinetic differences between heel - tip or tip - heel, or heel - heel - tip, or tip - tip - heel is also important. For a basic tumbao I use the heel of my hand and the tips of my fingers using a back and forth rocking motion to create a "ride" pattern on the drum. In Cuba this technique is called manoteo, or marcha, but according to at least one Boston conguero I met, "the fish." It is imperative to keep your hand loose (like a fish) and build up both strength and speed to execute this essential sound in conga drumming. We also use this technique to play the Brasilian pandeiro. I think the technique may be derived from Congolese drumming, a strong common denominator in the formation of both Afro-Cuban and African-Brasilian music. Good luck!!!

Saludos,

Berimbau

Posted: **Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:18 am**

Dear Jerry A,
One more important addenda. Bass tones ARE different than EITHER heel or tip tones and are produced by using the entire palm of your hand. Experiment with cupping the striking hand and hitting the drum at dead center. A subtle variety in bass tones may also be rendered by using a flattened palm and/or striking the tumba off-center. There is an amazing number of sounds in the tumbadoras and after 35 years of playing I still keep finding new sounds. I promise you won't ever get bored trying to master these amazing drums!!

Saludos,

Berimbau

Posted: **Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:33 pm**

Hi there

Heel and Toe is a specific technique used to "wrap" and/or get a rhythm "fuller". Get used to it and practice it since you'll be playing the heel toe thing a lot.
For example, the basic tumbao includes "real" strokes, but all the times and half times are filled withe alternate heel and toe.

I hope this is clear enough since english is only my 3rd language.

Good luck
B

Posted: **Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:14 pm**

Greeting,this time it look like Berimbau,did a pretty good research,I would just point out that the techique was absolutely developed in Cuba,( through years of experimentation), of the tumbadores during the Carnivals where they have to come every years with differents percussion patterns and riffs to overcome the competition of others comparsas,each barrio,(neighborhood), had its own Comparsa so the competition was tough,( and I did observed this trend through several years).Later it was incorporated into the Conjuntos,(when the Tumbadora'Conga', was finally incorporated in the cuban music.Others features were develop by Tata Guines from the 60's to the 70's.,when I was still in Cuba.Dr. Zaragemca

Edited By zaragemca on 1120317938

Posted: **Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:34 pm**

Thanks to all of you. I was wondering because I was reading through some old posts and in one they were discussing how you had to put your whole palm to the drum for the "heel" part of the tumbao, and I wondered if it were the same as the bass tone.

I've only been playing for 7 months and I think I have the basic technique down, but I always experiment with different hand positions and ways to strike the drum.

Berimbau....35 Years! Wow....I hope I'm still playing congas 35 yrs from now. You're right about not getting bored...drumming has been a passion of mine since I was a little kid of about 10, and my grandpa bought me what was like a conga, but shaped like a 3ft high barrel. He cut sticks from tree branches and taught me patterns to accompany him on his violin. Ever since then I've been striking my hands to anything when ever a good song is playing (tables, steering wheel, my lap...etc.) And until now that I was able to afford a conga set.......its like a void in my life has been filled.

Thanks again to all of you for your responses.

Posted: **Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:58 pm**

hi there

IHey I need some credits here too!!! I'm 35 too

Ah ah

See ya guys

B

Posted: **Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:46 pm**

Yes, the heel means bass.. And yes, it's a completely flat hand..

The "rocker", or going from wrist to touch, and skipping the flat hand like a see-saw has been pointed out as a major technique problem by every teacher or great player I've learned from... So make it flat,, even at fast speeds.
That's why I never say "heel-toe",, I always say "bass-touch".

Posted: **Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:24 pm**

Hy there to all . This pattern is the essential time keeper in playing . I was first told by my former instructor to use my heel , but my present instructor who is cuban uses the full palm technique . This is essential in cuban style drumming . You must hook up with a good teacher ,,,,,,, i'm telling you it's the right thing to do . If not you will always be wondering if you are doing it right . The strokes and hand possition and combinations , a good teacher is what you need ......

rumbaman

Posted: **Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:13 pm**

Come to think of it, I DO usually use my entire palm and then the tips of my fingers for a marcha. Sorry Jerry!!! Some 8 years ago I did learn a real neat triplet in Bahia where you bounce the HEELl of the hand twice on the drum skin THEN let the fingertips come down.
That's pretty cool, too.

Saludos,

Berimbau

Posted: **Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:47 pm**

#### all,
I've met many top players who've had to "unlearn" the
old Heel-Toe model of the manoteo. The more fatter
fuller sound is less bouncy and more anchored within
the music. It's aslo safer for the wrist.
You can observe this in CHanguito's method,
which Giovanni also absorbed. I had to go through this
slip back into old habits. That's why a good teacher early one
gives you the correct start.
Regarding the manoteo itself, on a visit to Cuba I watched
some real old timers play with no manoteo whatsoever.
These guys were older than Tata Guines. They're playing
on first impression was simplistic, yet the sabor and power
was immense.
~ ISAAC ~
funky tradition

Posted: **Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:49 pm**

My greetings to all, I erroneously typed
#### all, instead of hello all!
isaac

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What is the difference between heel and bass??