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Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:05 pm**

Alafia Abures!
May you all be blessed with many gigs and comfortable thrones! (or comfortable shoes if you gig standing up

)

Here is something that I'm sure we all face with the various groups we work with. Soloing, do you prefer, as I do, to have a guajeo (piano pattern, sometimes referred to as montuno), playing while you solo? or do you prefer to play over empty space upon which you can alter time and do a Richie Flores (with all due respect to the man)?

I have worked with several groups in my lifetime where the pianist is very intuned with his/her role, and instinctively provides me with a base to solo on, effortless in some cases. I do however have those situations, especially in latin pop, funk, and, well in jazz bands it's expected so I guess that one doesn't count. I currently work with a really good piano player, who in fact is in New York at this very moment playing at Carnigie Hall with a DJ, a RedBull production, well back to my point. He totally stops playing when we are doing a salsa tune and it comes time for me to solo :angry:

I'm building up my hands, playing the groove, once in a while throwing in a riff or two, but mainly holding the groove, and then he turns and introduces me and .......................nothing, I'm all alone

I pull it through none the less, but it would be so much better with the guajeo to accompany me! Anyone else out there have an issue with this?

Sweet Riffs!
Onile!

Edited By onile on 1127927281

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:37 pm**

yeah, this happen alot when you play with with a straight ahead jazz band...NOW i don't know who the piano player is but i never heard of a piano player (in the salsa/mambo/latinjazz idiom), who totally stops playing piano when the conga takes a solo...What a stop of momentum! a flavorful montuno only adds, and reinforces a good solo...one thing to note is that in latin jazz or salsa/mambo, etc...the piano, bass, cascara, mazacote, and martillo all fit together, while in a pop, or funk setting the conga may be more for color, that why the pianist may stop...because he is not aware of the importance of relationship between the instruments in the rhythm section, when speaking of latin rhythms

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:51 pm**

Hola Onile, bro!
Thanks for a new term I've never heard before,"guajeo", I know it like montuno, better call it tumbao (tumbao on piano like on tumbadora, is it correct?)
As for me, I prefer to play solo with piano and basse. I can count myself, but I practice alone everyday at my home, it's boring.
Once I played a jam with jazz musicians, wich didnt know anything about afrocuban drumming, I couldn't find anyone to lean on. The drummer used brushes on my solos!

Have a good drumming!

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:55 pm**

Alafia Ralph!
You and I are on point with this, the piano player in this case, who is the leader of the group, has a background of jazz in his influence of the music. This doesn't give him a reprieve from having to supply the intricate guajeo nonetheless, he just opts not to play during this point in the music. Despite my pointing this out to him, the next step is to share the LP Solo DVD with him, which clearly points this factoid out, rather tastey I might add! Hummmmmm! this sounds like a plan! ???

Many blessings hermano Ralph!
Onile

Edited By onile on 1127935857

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:30 pm**

Conga solos, Djembe, Bongos, Doumbek.... You name it!

I hate soloing when I'm left alone by band, that's why I always say to the members if they wanna do the presentation of members with giving them a chance to solo, keep tha groove floating boys!!!

I mean, when bass player is doing his dum du da du du tu da solo - at least drummer is companiying him, same with others, but when the drummer or percussionist is presented it's like; OK, the jungle man is out on the loose, let's all give him a brake and let he make the girls sweat, guys jeaulous and him a monkey with a fast hands... Hate that

, especially the monkey part

, like girls sweatin' though

But depends, personally I like to do my solos with a solid and minimal bass playin' and drum groove minimal (hi hat licks) and later, when build up, i usually invite all from the band to make a final phrase together (it's something that i just do without talking, just eye contacts, dynamics and music that we speak).

I'm playing mainly jazz, etno, rock funk and fusion kind of gigs, not latino that much, but i like the Santana on concerts and other world music bands that i know. Getting the connection in a band is vital for my playing in a bands. But... not all are like that and occasionally I'm left alone and I try to be not frustrated with that and I begin with a simple and solid groove which i implement to the point that I start to tell my conga, djembe, bongos, doumbek... story.

To me it helps what once mentor on summer music workshop said:,, When you have a solo, don't force it, you know, the music is in you, silence speaks, tone speaks, your hands speak, let it out freely, without frustration, you are good and competent of letting it go out from your heart through your hands - it is music within you'' Steve Altenberg, drummer mentor from NY

Kind of romantic, but it works for me when i'm playing, especially with ego maniacs.

Now, fry me a solo!

Primoz

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:38 pm**

Alafia GuruPimpi!
Great words of wisdom! I am with you on that!

Hermano Rumbero Russo, I don't believe that the term "tumbao" would necessarily apply to the piano, but I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree!:D

I think we all appreciate soloing over a vamp, guajeo, or just some accompanymnet! What really drives me during a solo is when the guajeo, bass and campana are all in sync! Yeah Boy! That's when the real rythms get bumpin':D

Suave!
Onile!

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:53 pm**

Yo y'all,

If it helps, my two congas worth.
Playing with non latino jazzers, the best way I found is to get the group to just do the chord changes and leave silence between like Da/dum 2 3 4 1 2 3 da/de 2 3 de/dum........if you get my drift. It forces them to count, leaves space for the solo and lets you know where you are in the chorus.
Just one idea, hope it helps

sabor
Diceman

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:54 pm**

Good One, Diceman!

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:54 pm**

Hola todos mis hermanos!
Sure all of us have own sense of rythm, but what collective groove is? You can play alone or with metronome for a long time... but I think, the groove is the conversation between the groovemakers, no matter how many of them are, 2 or 22. It could be piano player or campana, maybe bass or drum, the most important is to play TOGETHER, feel comfortable, have fun...
All the best!

Posted: **Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:08 pm**

Yeah!

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:13 am**

Rumbero Russo ...goto http://www.latinjazzclub.com they have a listing of latin music "terminology's"..."JC" Johnny Conga....

Posted: **Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:29 pm**

Yo y'all!

I like soloing with piano or at least bass keeping groove, but also can enjoy "going it alone", depending on music, groove, mood, etc....

Yoni

Posted: **Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:46 pm**

When I solo on the Timbales, I hate when they just stop everything and leave me alone to solo out of thin air. I like when the piano leads me in and then he can stop.

Posted: **Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:15 pm**

Hi all,
"Guajeo" is that essential melodic vamp of the son, akin to the ostinato melodies of the African lamellaphones, xylophones and stringed instruments. The guajeo generates the chord progression as well as a rhythmic progression as important as any percussion part. The first instrument I’m aware of to play guajeos is the tres. Piano guajeos have come to be known as "montunos" because they play guajeos during the montuno section of a song. I grew up calling the part a "piano montuno" and there’s Rebeca Mauleon book "101 Montunos". A few musicians have corrected me when I’ve said "piano montuno". "You mean piano GUAJEO!" Rumbero russo you are right, the part is now called piano "tumbao". The part is called that in Cuban timba. I find it strange because I’ve always called the bass part and conga part "tumbao".

Regardless of what you call it, dropping out the guajeo during a percussion solo definitely eliminates a lot of the drive. Eddie Palmieiri would stop his whole band to let the conga and bongo player solo completely alone. Of course Richie Flores and Anthony Carillo can pull something like that off. Such things are rare in salsa though. It’s more of a jazz and rock aesthetic having the drums go solo in their solo. I’ve had jazz bands do that to me because they didn’t understand how congas take solos. An easy remedy is to just have them go through the changes like they would for any soloist. Onile, somehow you have to get your piano player to realize they have a very important concept to learn. Good luck!

-David

Posted: **Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:29 pm**

Anyway, doesn't matter how to call it, it's more important how does it sounds

The pianoplayer wich I play with most of the gigs, doesnt even care about this therms, but he do it realy great.
All the best!

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Soloing! - Over a guajeo or open space?