I Need a Shave and a Haircut

[JohnR]

If someone doen't help me get a shave and a haircut pretty soon I will be looking like a homeless person.

My understanding of the "Shave and a Haircut, Two Bits" rhythmic phrase is that it is 3/2 clave with "Two Bits" on the two side.

It is obvious that the syllables "Shave" and "cut" fall on beats 1 and 4 of the 3-side and "Two Bits" on beats 2 and 3 of the 2-side, but I am confused about the timing of "and a Hair".

The timing sounds to me like "and a Hair" would fall on 2+3, but "Hair" seems to be accented, and I don't think an accent on 3 would be correct.

I read a drummer's (not conguero) explanation that the "and a" is played as a ruff, but he did not explain at what beat. If it is a ruff leading to 2+, then that would make sense for the accent on the 3-side of the clave, but that would leave 3/8th notes of spacing between "Hair" and "cut", which doesn't feel right either.

Another possibility might be that the accent is supposed to be on the "a" syllable of the phrase, which would be the 2+ if the timing is 2+3 for "and a Hair". The problem with that is that I have a hard time accenting a beat while thinking "a" because the "a's" are normally the offbeats when doing 16th notes.

Can someone help me get this shave and a haircut? ???

[windhorse]

clave
x--x---xl--x-x---
two bits ending
o-ooo-o-l--o-o---

That's how I heard Los Monequitos do it.

[JohnR]

Thank you, Windhorse.

Your timing is the way I thought it should be, but does this mean that the accent is on the "a" of "and a Hair" ??

[JohnnyConga]

Here are ur claves

counted out
3/2 1 2+ 3 4 1 2 3 4
x x x x x

2/3 1 2 3 4 1 2+ 3 4 Son clave

x x x x x

2/3 Rumba clave 1 2 + 3 4+ 1 2 3 4
x x x x x

I hope this helps...."JC" Johnny Conga...

[JohnR]

OK, so it looks like we have agreed that the clave accent is 2+ on the 3-side, and that "and a Hair" falls on 2+3.

So does it follow that the accent should be on the "a" of "and a Hair" ...or perhaps it should be played without an accent?

[windhorse]

What do you mean "Accent?"
Why are you asking this?

[mjw]

Snowboy's version of 'Cloudburst' uses the phrase very nicely - worth listening too. You'll find it on the 'Mambo Rage' CD (Cubop)

[JohnR]

The "Accent " would be the beats that are emphasized, usually by being played a little louder or with a different tone, e.g. a slap or a tone on a different drum.

It seems logical that if the phrase represents the 3/2 clave, then the clave beats should be accented, but I don't know. That's why I am asking the question.

[windhorse]

The "Accent " would be the beats that are emphasized, usually by being played a little louder or with a different tone, e.g. a slap or a tone on a different drum.

It seems logical that if the phrase represents the 3/2 clave, then the clave beats should be accented, but I don't know. That's why I am asking the question.

Hi John,,
The clave beats don't need accenting since the clave is playing with the conga already. If you just play it straight through and no accents, it sounds great! If you're thinking the little ditty in your head,, the listener hears it anyway. I programmed that ending into Percussion Studio and it's on one of the previous posts in this same forum under the topic Mad Scientisting Quinto Solos.

Dave

[JohnR]

Ok, so that answers the question (no clave accent required on the congos).

Does that concept apply generally, even if there is no one playing the clave?

[JohnnyConga]

What do u mean ("no clave accent required ON CONGAS"???.)...the Clave is "tension and release" first bar is the tension. second bar is the release.. if you want accents ,accent the and of 4 for Rumba clave...."JC" Johnny Conga... PS ..u play the tumba(bass) drum always on the 3 side of the clave.....OK?

[Diceman]

PS ..u play the tumba(bass) drum always on the 3 side of the clave.....OK?

Unless you are in a Timba band!!
Those boys are breaking all the rules.

Diceman

[JohnnyConga]

Yea Timba may be about "breaking the rules", but it basically 'stops' the clave when "changing gears",as they say in the arrangement. I was piturbed about this until I really understood what Timba is about,not so much as breaking the rules as creating "new rules" (Bill Maher). As I understand it..."JC" Johnny Conga.... PS...my example of Rumba clave is off because of where the X's wound up on my post....not because I don't know my Rumba clave... :;):

[Jimmy]

Greetings to you all.

Guys, what's with the shave, haircuts & manicures? LOL.......... Just keep it simple.

2/3 son clave.
Play a beat on 2,3. next bar 1, 2+ 4.

3/2 son clave.
1, 2+,4 next bar 2, 3

3/2 rumba clave.
1 2+ 4+. next bar 2, 3.

3/2 rumba clave sounds like its 2/3 clave, but its not! The 4+ or (the and of 4) is still in the first bar. Its very important to fully understand all claves and to feel it as well. Hope i didn't confuse those who are looking for a better understanding of the clave.

Hasta luego.
JD

[JohnnyConga]

Devil's advocate here ..so there is NO 2/3 Rumba clave as written?....."JC" Johnny Conga......