Mozambique - 2-3 Rumba clave

[Jongo]

Hey Congueros, my understanding is that Mozambique is played in 2-3 Rumba clave. I am playing in a jazz group and we are playing a tune that is a Mozambique but the band director has the clave as a 3-2 Rumba clave. I have not said anything but it feels awkward to me, like the clave is crossed.
Am I correct that Mozambique is played 2-3 Rumba clave? Are there instances where you might play it 3-2?
I have never played Mozambique other than in 2-3 rumba clave but I want to ask some of the experts before I talk to the band director.

[zwar]

ho jongo

it makes sense to start with the 3side of mozambique, if the musik as a whole, or dominant parts of it, start on the first offbeat.

greetings

zwar

[windhorse]

It's 2-3 if your lead drum starts with:
ooo (3 tones), and if you start on either bxx, or spacexx, then it's 3-2.

[Jongo]

Exactly. I am playing Mozambique how it is supposed to be played 2-3 rumba clave but the band leader wants the clave 3-2 but me still playing Mozambique 2-3. Very frustrating.

[zwar]

ho jongo

my experience is, musicians often not being aware of the difference between starting a songpart with the two, or the 3side. further they often dont understand the relationship between the corresponding measures of bell/clave and other instruments. then normaly people instinctively want to start clave on the threeside.
maybe the bandleader just doesnt know better.
lot of jazzmusicians have only superficial knowledge of latin rhythm-systems.

zwar

[Raymond]

Agree with Zwar....try to tell him and "demonstrate." How the arrangement starts it does not matter whether is 3/2 or 2/3. (Agree with you that the feel of the mozambique is in the 2/3 in its basis so the arrangement must have some kind of pick up or silence to allow that 3/2 to start the arrangement). However, if the rhythms and everything else is "cruzao" (that means out of clave), after the song has started, demonstrate to the band leader what you mean.

I know is hard...Also, there is a trend to "mess with the clave" big time and if you have a musician with pride who claims dominates the clave....you have a problem too!

Saludos!

[davidpenalosa]

Am I correct that Mozambique is played 2-3 Rumba clave? Are there instances where you might play it 3-2?

Hi folks,
I’m not certain I understand this discussion fully, so please feel free to correct me if I’m missing something here.

• 3-2, 2-3 Terminology and Concept
First of all, rhythms don’t have a fixed, designated clave “direction”. In other words, there are no “3-2 rhythms” or “2-3 rhythms” per sé. In popular music, the rhythms themselves are neutral as far as clave direction goes. The 3-2 clave, 2-3 clave terminology and concept codifies the two ways in which the rhythmic progression (clave) is juxtaposed to the harmonic progression. In popular music harmony has precedence over rhythm. Because of clave’s binary nature though, the chord progression is conceived as beginning in one of two ways: on the three-side or on the two-side. There are two possible harmonic “ones”: “one of the three-side”, or “one of the two-side”. In other words, 3-2, 2-3 conceives of a reversible harmonic “one”.

• Beginning a Percussion Pattern
In folkloric music the rhythmic progression of clave is the prime referent. In other words, “one” is on the three-side and the 3-2, 2-3 concept does not apply. In folkloric music, such as iyesa or bata, there are often set ways in which a particular percussion part enters in relation to clave. In popular music on the other hand, a percussionist must be able to begin any pattern in 3-2 or 2-3, depending on the harmonic progression involved.

• Mozambique
Mozambique is a unique rhythm for several reasons. It was the first post-Revolutionary rhythm and the first Cuban popular music to regularly use rumba clave. When Pello el Afrokan first presented mozambique, it was basically in a comparsa format, consisting of percussion and trombones. The rhythm actually straddled both the folkloric and popular realms. Traditionally, the various percussion parts of mozambique enter in set ways, as is done in folkloric rhythms. For example, the two-drum pattern begins on bombo, clave enters 3-2 and the bell enters 2-3. Over time, bass, guitar and piano were added and it came to resemble a typical Cuban popular dance band.

Although Eddie Palmieri’s mozambique was inspired by the Cuban rhythm of the same name, it is an entirely different rhythm. The main thing they share is their connection to conga de comparsas.

Now, if anyone disagrees with these basic premises, I’d like to hear it.

Most (if not all) mozambique songs are in a 2-3 progression. For that reason, it can feel awkward to play the rhythm (either the Pello or Eddie versions) in a 3-2 song. If the issue being discussed here concerns playing mozambique in 2-3 when the song is 3-2, then I’m sure everyone agrees that is wrong. If the song is in 3-2, you have to play mozambique in 3-2. It’s awkward, but correct and a good exercise besides.
-David

[davidpenalosa]

Am I correct that Mozambique is played 2-3 Rumba clave? Are there instances where you might play it 3-2?

Hi folks,
I’m not certain I understand this discussion fully, so please feel free to correct me if I’m missing something here.

• 3-2, 2-3 Terminology and Concept
First of all, rhythms don’t have a fixed, designated clave “direction”. In other words, there are no “3-2 rhythms” or “2-3 rhythms” per sé. In popular music, the rhythms themselves are neutral as far as clave direction goes. The 3-2 clave, 2-3 clave terminology and concept codifies the two ways in which the rhythmic progression (clave) is juxtaposed to the harmonic progression. In popular music harmony has precedence over rhythm. Because of clave’s binary nature though, the chord progression is conceived as beginning in one of two ways: on the three-side or on the two-side. There are two possible harmonic “ones”: “one of the three-side”, or “one of the two-side”. In other words, 3-2, 2-3 conceives of a reversible harmonic “one”.

• Beginning a Percussion Pattern
In folkloric music the rhythmic progression of clave is the prime referent. In other words, “one” is on the three-side and the 3-2, 2-3 concept does not apply. In folkloric music, such as iyesa or bata, there are often set ways in which a particular percussion part enters in relation to clave. In popular music on the other hand, a percussionist must be able to begin any pattern in 3-2 or 2-3, depending on the harmonic progression involved.

• Mozambique
Mozambique is a unique rhythm for several reasons. It was the first post-Revolutionary rhythm and the first Cuban popular music to regularly use rumba clave. When Pello el Afrokan first presented mozambique, it was basically in a comparsa format, consisting of percussion and trombones. The rhythm actually straddled both the folkloric and popular realms. Traditionally, the various percussion parts of mozambique enter in set ways, as is done in folkloric rhythms. For example, the two-drum pattern begins on bombo, clave enters 3-2 and the bell enters 2-3. Over time, bass, guitar and piano were added and it came to resemble a typical Cuban popular dance band.

Although Eddie Palmieri’s mozambique was inspired by the Cuban rhythm of the same name, it is an entirely different rhythm. The main thing they share is their connection to conga de comparsas.

Now, if anyone disagrees with these basic premises, I’d like to hear it.

Most (if not all) mozambique songs are in a 2-3 progression. For that reason, it can feel awkward to play the rhythm (either the Pello or Eddie versions) in a 3-2 song. If the issue being discussed here concerns playing mozambique in 2-3 when the song is 3-2, then I’m sure everyone agrees that is wrong. If the song is in 3-2, you have to play mozambique in 3-2. It’s awkward, but correct and a good exercise besides.
-David

Hey,
I just wanted to re-post my message since the porn invader messed things up.
-david

[Jongo]

A very thorough answer David!
The band director does not know Mozambique and wants to play it cruzao. It seemed very obvious so I was thinking like am I missing something. I agree you have to be able to start on the 2 side or 3 side. In this case he wants me to start on the 2 side but he has the clave on the 3 side. I got to get that fixed it is really too much. I don't have any formal music training so sometimes they think I don't know what I am talking about. Maybe I will print your response and use it to back up what I am saying. Thanks!

[davidpenalosa]

Hey Jongo,
Why don't you demonstrate to your director how the rhythm sounds when its properly aligned and then how it sounds cruzado. Hopefully that will work.
-david

[JohnnyConga]

Tks David for ur insight as always....Ya know after looking at the Tomas Cruz DVD no3 I see that some of his Songo patterns he plays are some of the "Mozambique" patterns I learned back in the 60's and 70's,before he was born.... now called Songo....??? "JC" Johnny Conga.... ???

[davidpenalosa]

Hi Johnny,
Can you tell me the DVD track or page number where that appears in Vol 3? Thanks.
-David

[JohnnyConga]

Well he shows 9 different songo patterns so u have to go thru them to see the ones Im talking about...but how does Mozambique all of a sudden become Songo is my question?...paz..."JC" Johnny Conga....and as a reminder to myself doesn't Songo mean "Son that Goes"......or is it just me ???

[davidpenalosa]

I see that some of his Songo patterns he plays are some of the "Mozambique" patterns I learned back in the 60's and 70's,before he was born.... now called Songo....

Hi Johnny,
Could you have meant The Tomas Cruz Book Vol. II, and not Vol. III? I found a couple of Tomas’ songo patterns in Vol. II (#7, & #8 on the DVD) that could pass for a NY mozambique. I assume you were referring to NY mozambique and not the Cuban version? I believe the songo patterns Tomas demonstrated are based on Channguito's songo inventos.

Pello’s original mozambique has specific parts, even specific ways in which those parts enter. The NY version on the other hand, while having a specific bell part, does not have a specific conga part. The congas loosely follow the bell pattern and I’m sure you are aware of several ways in which the congas can be played in that rhythm. You probably have your own original version of NY-style mozambique that you’ve created.

Songo has different meanings in the US and Cuba. In Cuba the term specifically refers to the percussion patterns developed in Los Van Van, which were almost entirely the creation of Changuito. In the US songo refers to the general rhythmic approach of the Cuban bands during the late 60’s to early 80’s. That approach mainly involved the infusion of rumba elements into the conga and timbale parts.

There’s a revealing section in Ignacio Berroa’s first instructional video where he states something to the effect that there are no songo parts per sé, it’s a feeling or general approach to rhythm. He then proceeds to demonstrate the basic songo timbal/snare PART that we all know (?!!):

2-3 clave:

B•S•BS•SBSS•BS•S

Except for the bell stroke on the first beat of the three-side, this pattern is identical to the NY Mozambique bell pattern:

B•B•BB•B•BB•BB•B

B = bell
S = snare
• = rest

So, here we have a direct connection between the songo and NY mozambique timbal parts. In a broader sense, one could make the case that NY mozambique and the patterns of the Cuban “songo era” were two parallel musical developments of the 70's, in which the percussion parts became more busy and complex through the adaptation of folkloric elements from rumba, comparsa, etc.

Perhaps this could account for the similarity of Tomas’ songo and your mozambique?

As a conga drummer, I found the NY mozambique and songo patterns very inspiring because they broke free of the confines of the standard marcha.
-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1173837527