Foot Pedal Technique

[Joseph]

I starting thinking about this over at the jam block thead, where there was some discussion of foot pedals.

Like others here, I have a foot pedal (with a crummy old bell on it…gonna change to a block…when I make one).

When practicing I use it for the pulse beat while playing a clave(or whatever bell or clave pattern is called for) on metronome.

I’ve tried to transition to put the clave in my foot, but I’m at mental block, and can’t do it, and have avoided trying since my first fumbling attempts.

I’m going to relate this feeling to another activity I have done, for it is the same phenomena.
There is a point here, so bear with my long windedness.

I have been (at one time…way outta practice) a quite accomplished juggler.
5 Balls...lotsa tricks, Clubs...double rotation on volley…talk about high energy hand movement !
I took up juggling after learning my rudiments in snare drumming.
The sense of timing I learned in drumming informed & enhanced my juggling.
…And vise versa
Wanna improve your timing…take up juggling as a side activity…you’ll learn control, how to manage time within the pace, thinking ahead within the pace to make time to do other things with your hands.
It’s a tremendous brain exercise and hand-eye coordination experience.

Anyway, all jugglers strive for “eye independence”, that is, one can continue with whatever juggling volley is occurring, and look at and relate to other things (the audience).

There is one eye independence exercise I could never break the barrier on (and this is where it relates to drum pedal / clave beats in the foot). The exercise involves juggling in front of a mirror.
As one continues to juggle, one turns the body (not the head) 90 degrees to the left or right. Essentially one is still looking in the mirror, but the body, and the reflected area of plane of the juggling volley have rotated to the left or right.

I could be looking in mirror juggling with total control…no prob…but as soon as I rotated body, I watched in mirror as balls just flew out of my hands, it was a completely dis-orienting feeling, as if I was suddenly in another dimension, and gravity didn’t apply. I never could break that barrier, and as it was so dis-orienting, I kinda avoided trying very much.

The feeling I have with foot pedal is very similar. I could be grooving along with clave on the machine, pulse in my foot, hands moving just right in terms of rhythm and tone articulation. If I try to put clave pattern in foot, I completely fall apart…can’t even keep up the hand movement. It’s that same disorienting feeling...I just come to a halt.

Now I know this is a matter of “limb independence”, probably an essential skill for an accomplished trap-set drummer.
I recognize that limb independence not an essential skill for a conga player, but it certainly does add versatility.

I’ve seen some video, here & youtube, with players and footpedals tapping out clave or short bell patterns, while playing on congas. I was wondering if there are any pedal-pushers who have started out like me, but have managed to break the barrier and transition from pulse beat patterns in the foot to clave beat patterns in the foot.

How did you do it?
Yeah…yeah..I know....start slow
…any other suggestions, insights?

~ Joseph...the juggling conga student

[Congadelica]

Hi Joseph,

What I have been doing while sat at my desk in work is utilising this time by tapping Clave and 6/8 paterns . Its another muscle to train in sync with your brain . I do this for 20 mins at a time ,sometime s Im doing it when I dont even know I doing it if you get me .

Make most of any time watching TV or even when your at your PC then when you think its locked apply to the drum situation .

marco

[Mike]

tapping Clave and 6/8 paterns . Its another muscle to train in sync with your brain . I do this for 20 mins at a time ,sometime s Im doing it when I dont even know I doing it if you get me .

Marco has got a point there, it´s all about about getting unconscious
No, I mean, subconscious internalization is the key here.
I also find myself tapping or even humming clave patterns in many situations,
you aren´t really aware of that after a while.

Joseph, I admire jugglers - I myself can only handle two balls at a time (NO, no dirty pun intended, really! )
When it comes to footpedal technique while playing congas - well, I am sort of a novice there
(although I have donesome trap drumming before), but what has REALLY helped me is this:

1. to get supersteady with my conga beats - I am talking about years, man!
2. getting accustomed to speak, sing, etc. the clave patterns and only after that:
3. putting the woodblock kicking and conga playing together.

Plus I often alternate the right and left foot in order not to get too fixated on one foot.
And yes, slow does the trick, but also changing the FOCUS (i.e. your inner ear) from foot
back to the hands again.

So far, simultaneous hand- and footwork on congas & bell/block has worked only when
I play patterns with little variations - soloing? No sir, that ain´t work yet

[Joseph]

getting accustomed to speak, sing, etc. the clave patterns

That's another mindbender...I've tried it, and struggled.

I played a while back with a conga drummer who could swich effortlessly fom vocalizing clave
Ka..Ka..Ka...Ka.Ka... to singing/ chanting, while maintaining his hand pattern.

I took home 2 lessons from that:
First realization of that ability to effortlessly shift gears to vocalizing clave, then to melodic line. He was so fluid.
Second, realization of what a phenomenal enhancement singing brought to the percussion groove.
After that I tuned in to the fact that a majority of traditional/folkloric percussion rhythms involve singing/vocalizing/chanting

That ability ...singing while holding down a pattern...unless the pattern and melody coincide(boring)...is another one I'm not comfortable with.

Foot and mouth dis-ease?

[bongosnotbombs]

Second, realization of what a phenomenal enhancement singing brought to the percussion groove.
After that I tuned in to the fact that a majority of traditional/folkloric percussion rhythms involve singing/vocalizing/chanting



Foot and mouth dis-ease?

Don't forget dancing, too. In some ways it is only a complete art when the singing, dancing and drumming are all present.

As for the clave pedal thing, I have been having some success with adding one note of the clave at a time.
First playing only on the one, then later the bomba note, etc.

Hardest part is to get a steady timing with the clave pedal, so far it wanders all over the place.
I also practice just the feet, not drums, pulse on one foot, pedal and clave the other foot.
Still a LONG way to go, but having some success.

[Joseph]

Jeeze Bongo...
I can barely hum and hold down a rhythm while tapping my foot...
...you want me to dance too???

Seriously, you are right...dancing informs the drumming...an essential part.

I can''t begin to tell you how acute my senses become while drumming and there is an enthusiastic (female) pelvis out there pulsating with it all!

With all this co-ordination talk, I have an idea that would go over big with the Fisherman's Wharf, or Duval Street crowd...
May take years to perfect...Might require one of those Barrow stands
http://www.mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3952
...The One Man Rumba...
...He sings !
...He dances...executes a deft vacunao !
...He sears through six variations of guaguanco, while pounding out a 2-3 Rumba clave on either foot !
.....................pass the hat..........

[Tone]

Hey Joseph,

It is quite simple really and you can do it too.
Granted some people are more talented than others at being able to do two or more things at the same time. I am not one of them but when I decide I am going to do two things at the same time, I do!
Whether it is playing piano, or foot clave, clave in one hand cata in the other, clave in one hand with various exercises, vocalising clave whie playing rumba, playing comparsa bell in one hand while playing congas, also with Brazilian stuff : ganza with tantan, tantan with partido alto on the side of the drum,... it is endless fun.

Just break it down and play it as slow as possible, to the point where things are just done one after the other with time to think about it. JUST DO IT FOREVER!! Slowly go faster, still in a kind of interlocked way, then eventually you will be able to hear yourself play the two parts while keeping the other one steady, being able to shift your concentration from one to the other. When you are very comfortable with that, then you might feel free enough to start some variations on one part. Obvious stuff at first, and slowly build up.

In my experience you can learn the two parts to death separately and still feel completely desoriented when playing them together, you have to practise the two things together specifically.

From your post it seems that you got discouraged much too soon, simply keep at it. It won't be musical at first but it will be.

Just another word of advice. I find that keeping at one problem with out a break can actually prevent you from learning. Try to practise for 2 or 3 minutes then stop and do something else ( paradidles or whatever) and come back to it ,or even do nothing for a minute. That gives your brain a chance to organize things, you will find that you have made progress everytime you come back. Then stop after an hour, and come back to it in the same fashion later or the next day. After a week of this you should get marcha with clave down for eample.

Good luck

Peace

tone

[pavloconga]

What I do is write the parts out, then break it up into manageable chunks. e.g. I might just play the first 3 notes and get the muscles used to that, then add another couple of notes and continue in that way. Most of it is repetition and muscle memory. After a while you begin to hear it as a whole rather than 'your left side is doing this and your right side is doing that'.

Giovanni's 'Mano a Mano' vid has some great exercises for independence with the parts written out.

[windhorse]

Yep, BNB, Tone, and pavl, have the good advice..
I could only do it when I broke it down note for note on paper. "let's see,,, I hit the pedal, then I I do a slap, slap bass, then a pedal strike,,," etc. It'll take a day of slow concentrated work, but then you'll finally get it..
Probably like it was when you FIRST began juggling..

My problem, and I thought this thread was going to be about it when I read the subject, is how do you play the pedal for extended periods of time without leg discomfort? In other words,, what's the best technique?
I've heard you want to bounce your toes into the pedal like your jumping to make just the gastrocnemius do the work rather than the soleus.
My hip gets all worked, and I eventually have to stop and stretch before I cramp up.

[Mike]

In other words,, what's the best technique?
I've heard you want to bounce your toes into the pedal like your jumping to make just the gastrocnemius do the work rather than the soleus.
My hip gets all worked, and I eventually have to stop and stretch before I cramp up.

Usually, trap drummers play "heel up" . I don´t know if this coincides with the muscles you mention - I haven´t had enough medical training
to figure out the terms gastrocnemius and soleus
However, I rather put my whole foot flat on the pedal and I also try make rather small movements.
So I think a relaxed ankle and some adjustment of the pedal spring might do the trick to prevent
cramping.

[burke]

Wow - what a reassuring thread! I too break parts that require independence down and play them slooooooowly in small chunks.
I thought I was percussively stunted doing it that way and that most good players were like those lizards that can look in two different directions at once.

[Derbeno]

My GF is quite an accomplished classical pianist. When she is practicing a new difficult passage she breaks down her pedal and hand movements so ridiculously slow that it almost makes no sense.

For years she has been telling me to do the same on Congas although she not ever attempted to play them.

Judging by the responses above I better start to follow her advice.

[umannyt]

Derbeno,

Your GF's method makes a lot of sense. It's all about training one's foot and hand muscles to acquire new coordination memory. And much like a baby learning to walk, we first have to take "baby steps".

And the reality is that, depending on one's talents, some just learn to acquire and polish the new coordination earlier and faster than others.

[akdom]

Hi all.

This is a very interesting thread, and I wanted to add my thoughts.

I have a pedal and I am not really comfortable with it.
But I guess this id only due to a lack of work.

I studies West African traditional music around 16 years ago and for a few years before adding congas to my musical life. One thing that trad African music taught me is polyrythmic percussion.
West African music is mostly made of fairly simple patterns that do not work alone. Only once you can "hear" the full rythm built by all the patterns, you do not really hear anything. So, in order to play right, you have to know how all patterns lock into each other... giving an actual melody. Once you know that melody, you can start to approach how these patterns should be played.
In other words (dunno if I am clear, but it is late and English is not my first language), you need to be able to listen to the whole rhytm, isolate each pattern and isolate any other combination while playing.

Going back to independance feet/hands, one need to "sense" how your hands interact together and what the resulting rhytm "sings" while playing.



And, talking about the singing and playing, my experience started when I begun to give classes. Those who do to know that giving a percussion class to a few students without talkin while playing is useless. You constantly have to orally correct, comment or just say something to your students. Well, I guess it started there.
Now, I can very easyly play and talk at the same time. I play in a Latin band and I sing half of the repertory myself. And this is a really nice feeling.
Some conga patterns remain tough to sing to.


Hope this is helpful.


B

[windhorse]

Some conga patterns remain tough to sing to.
B

I'm curious which ones.. Is fast-or-slow - part of the equation,, or is it random.
Because my current topic of interest is singing and playing..

Dave