Congas: how to reduce overtones and ringing?

A place where discuss about secrets, tips and suggestions for practicing on congas and to improve your skill and technique ...

Postby Tuco » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:03 am

Hola everyone,

On a whim, I picked up a set of Bauer congas. Hand-crafted by Jack Bauer of "24" in his spare time! Sorry, it's late ;-) They are actually factory-made in Brazil by Bauer Percussion near São Paulo. Not too common in the US, but widely distributed in Europe and S. America.

Mine are similar to the congas shown on the linked page below, except mine are made out of a Marupá wood, which is a lighter in weight and color.

Bauer Congas

Anyhow, I have no major complaints about these drums; they have good basic tone and are well built.

But there's one issue that bothers me. All three sizes (quinto, conga, tumba) have a too many overtones and high-pitched ringing going on for my taste. It's funny because Bauer makes a deal in their materials about "no over tones". I'm not entirely sure what they mean by that. Who wants a dead drum?

Different tuning doesn't help. So I did a couple of experiments. I put some gaffer's tape on the heads--that seems to help a bit. And a put cardboard baffle into the cavity just to see what would happen. That actually improved things more than I expected. It must be breaking up the sound waves that a creating the overtones somehow.

So here's my question . . . what, if anything, can be done to lessen the overtones and ringing effects? I'm looking for a tight, dry sound.
Tuco
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Postby GuruPimpi » Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:10 am

Hello Tuco!

I had the same problem with my Meinl Woodcraft Quinto. It was ringing just that you touched it... I figured it out that the ringing came only if i knocked hardly on the shell, so it must have been something with a body too.
I cut and put some little pieces of spongy thing (we call it armaflex- the thing that you can sleep on it in a tent, backpackers carry this on the backpack, it's rolled...) and fixed it with a gaffer's tape, inside the drum.
Any way, I discovered that when i did that it took away every ringtone, maybe too dry, that's why I removed a bit. It's easy and funny when you see that worked. :D

After i played more and put some lanolin on the skin, cause it was dry like a desert when I got it, the ringtones went away and tell you frankly I removed everything from the inside, cause it's fine today. That is probably what guys here say, that skin needs to be 'broken', maybe the drum also...

my 2 cents,

Primoz

search some threads from the past about: ringing tones, metalic ring, overtones....
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Postby windhorse » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:56 pm

Those look like really nice drums!
The ringiness is mostly from the heads, somewhat the shell, and somewhat the outer rim holding down the head.
I've never met a new drum that didn't ring when you first get it. they always get much warmer after the first month of playing and tuning.
It'll get much better with time.

But, when you change the heads to thick ones,,, well then your whole paradigm of what sounds good will change! It'll suddenly feel like you've died and gone to heaven when you hear the tones come out.. :D
Again, it'll take about a month before it really starts coming out dry and wood blocky..
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Postby Mike » Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:23 pm

I can only support what windhorse says: Thicker heads reduce the nasty overtones - that really works!
BUT not for all drums: I shouldn´t have mounted thicker heads on my LP Classic Quinto, because the overtones being away with a head 1.5mm thicker, playability suffers: It´s harder to get good slaps from the Quinto (at least for me as a third-rate player :laugh: )

So keep this in mind, brothers beforestabbing the next cow :D
Peace & drum
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Postby Tuco » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:40 pm

Thanks everyone!

I should have mentioned that these congas are not new drums. They are 3 to 5 years old, and judging by the dings and dents, looks like they have been played a good amount. But then again, they heads look almost new. There's only a bit of wear on logo printed on the heads. So maybe they haven't been played much after all.

Here's what I understand so far from this thread:

1. Lubricate the heads and play the drums more
2. Switch to thicker heads
3. Put some absorbent material in the cavity

What's the best treatment for the heads? I've heard shea butter, red palm oil, lanolin, tea tree oil, etc. The shea butter seems too waxy / thick to me. I put it on my bougarabous drum and the head now has a greasy plastic feel to it until it warms up. Thoughts?

Does anyone think the lightness of the wood might have something to do with overtones / ringing? Or does that really make any difference?
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Postby Raymond » Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:32 pm

You know...one thing we tend to overlook is the "ergonomic" factor wth these drums. (Ergonomics is the effects of the interaction of "inactive object", machines, doors, instruments, etc, with the human beings. I summarize the definition like that although it is more complicated).

What do I mean....Let me give you my own personal example. Personally, I do not like thin heads. You know why? There is something in the "weight" or"pressure" I put in my hands when I play hand drums, etc, etc, or my style of playing that with thin heads I get overtones that I do not like, therefore I react different and affects my playing, and I feel uncomfortable with the sound. (Yes...have to admit that some players do not have a problem with that because when they play anything they always sound great but that is just a few. Maybe is my big hands that is believed by some to be a curse when you play hand drums. They say that small hands are much better. Giovanni Hidalgo and some of the great players have small hands).

The aforementioned in my case has been a trial an error throughout the years and I see it as something I have to be aware of. Thin heads are loved by some because they get great sound and they like the volume they provide with the overtones. (I like overtones in my timbales and cowbells but not on my hand drums). Thicker heads provide me a more "warm" sound and I love it. (Is the same with the thickness of timbale sticks, etc, etc. Personally, I like thicker sticks. Thinner sticks sound band to me when I use them).

In this case of ringing, besides the tuning that has to be reviewed, you have to see the "ergonomics" involved so you get what you want, feel comfortable and do what you are expected to do.

I know I got complicated about a "simple matter" but as a player you have to see your limitations and/or advantages and some of us need the help and we have to recognize when we needed and admit to it. They are few who are lucky to get great sound out of anything and some need the addiitional help....

My "complicated" 5 cents!

Saludos!




Edited By Raymond on 1174250124
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Postby Tuco » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:02 pm

Very interesting, I'm with you on the ergonomics point.

Although I played bongos many years ago, I'm new to congas. There's no question I need training to improve my technique and sound.

But the overtone / ringing seems to be at least partially inherent in these drums (as they are setup now).

I have a bourgarabous drum with a skin that's almost identical in thickness to these congas--and it's mellow and dry. Granted, totally different skins. The Bauer factory skins look, well, factory-processed--very uniform in appearance. In contrast, the skin on my Sengalese bougarabou looks like it was run over by a truck! Funky and scarred, but great sound. If you conga players out there want to try a little different flavor, check out a bougarabou sometime.

I would say these Bauer skins are in the medium category. Switching to thicker skins is any option, although I been frustrated in trying to find a source of high-quality skins. Anybody know where I can buy a set of nice, thick skins?

A while back in had a chance to play some Volcanos--arguably the Rolls Royce of congas--the thickest skins I've ever seen. They must have been in the neighborhood of 5 - 6 mm. They were over the top for me, couldn't play them, but the tone was really good. No objectionable overtones / ringing there.
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Postby rumbaman » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:18 pm

how is everyone today ,hope all is good . the BEST stuff i have used on the heads is MANTECA DE COROJO this is actually palmm oil . this is great for your hands also . you can get it at the botanicas .



rumbaman :D
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Postby chris hansen » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:44 pm

Hola Tuco and everyone else,

Just wondering how the ringing in your congas is, did you find anything that helps?

I recently got a set of Meinl Headliners and they have quite a ring to them so I was wondering what your experience has been.

Thanks.
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Postby Tuco » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:47 pm

Hey Chris,

Sorry, no magic bullet yet ;-) But I have talked to a lot of people in the business and congueros since I first posted the question.

The Meinls come with buffalo skin heads, which IMHO just don't sound good. I went down that road some time ago.

Stick with good ol' domestic cow/steer and if possible drums made from woods like mahogany, poplar, cherry, and ash, but probably not oak (too damn heavy and some say, not the right sound) or the "Thai oak" (aka cheap rubber wood) that Meinl, Toca, Pearl, LP and all the other Asian drums use. (there are a few exceptions in their top-shelf models). I gather that the precise shape of the drum and especially the skin are more important than the wood species.

Consider replacing one of the heads with thick steer and see what happens. Cost: maybe $40. I think you can order these from www.islapercussions.com (call Mario up for advice on this thickness). I don't have any special relationship with Isla, but I'm told the skins are good. Please let us know how it turns out.

You might also be fighting the shape of the drum and the inherent qualities of the rubber wood, in which case, the only long-term solution is to move the drums along on eBay and try some others. But before you do that, of course, change the skin out, lubricate the skin, and play the drum more to see if it resolves.

Here's my shorlist of good-sounding congas gathered from various sources over the last couple of years. Some of these are hard to get and expensive; others are more accessible, available both new and used. Some vintage drums are really just old dogs that have been abused. I would avoid those, unless you like wood- and metal-working projects!

Vintage Gon Bops and new California Series Gon Bops
Sol
Isla
JCR
Skin on Skin
Ritmo (Mattew Smith)
LP Matador (replace the heads with good, thick steer)

I've found it very valuable to hook up with players that have been around for years, sometimes decades, and have already played everything there is to play . . . they can point you in the right direction. Good luck!

Tuco
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Postby chris hansen » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:51 pm

Wow, thanks for all the info!

Unfortunately, my budget doesn't allow the purchase of a "good" set of drums. I got a good deal on the Meinls and they cost less for the set than one good one would. My standards are actually kind of low, I'd be happy just to make the ringing stop. When I stop playing it goes "Riiiiiinnng" and, when I put my finger on the head, I can feel it vibrating.

Maybe I'll put some palm oil on and give it a month or two to see if it breaks in at all. Then I'll probably look for better heads and see how that goes.

Another question: People seem to use a variety of things on the head but is there something in particular that's especially good at reducing the ring or do they all work about the same?

Thanks
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Postby zwar » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:57 am

ho

try this:

take some doubleside adhesive tape as it is used to fix carpets.
cut some pasteboard to about 2/3 the size of the playing surface.
fix it under the skins.
it will make the sound very dry, reduce ringing to zero.
just try what size of pasteboard offers best results.

greetings

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Postby CongaTick » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:39 am

Zwar,

Cool idea. If it works, you may have found the answer to the "RINGGG" conga blues many have expressed.

I would also suggest that - unless there is a sructural issue--ringing is for the most part a tuning issue. Thicker skins will ring less than thin. I notice when I tighten my quinto mule up beyond a certain point I start to ring a bit. So I de-tune in less than 1/4 " turns till I hear a clean open tone contrasting to a crisp, closed slap without a dominant ring.

As we know, every drum will tune differently. Thin buffalo on a CP quinto may indeed ring all the way down to max de-tune. A change in head will help.
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Postby zwar » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:57 am

ho congatick

its of course kind of interims-solution. better drums, better skins, better performance, no doubt.
i saw the gimmick with the pasteboard years ago on musikmesse, dont remember what company. not invented that on my own.

greetings from germany

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Postby Tuco » Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:38 pm

Chris,

I totally understand about money and drums; I've owned some cheap drums and some expensive drums, but I would have to say that there is not necessarily a direct correlation between cost and sound quality.

The other night, I was talking to a guy from NYC that's been playing since the 60's--he's played damn near everything out there. Yes, he owns some high-end drums, but for everyday gigs, he plays some used LP Matadors with new, thick steer hides. Says they are fine for him. No ring, good sound. And if somebody accidently kicks them over or decides to use them as a drink coaster, who cares? You can pick up used Matadors for about $120 per drum on eBay. Just an idea for you . . .
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