the new pecussion scene - Am I alone hating it?

[Tone]

Hello my fellow congueros,

this topic has been floating in my head for a while and a show I just saw pushed me over the edge.

I went to see the Perc Pan show in Rio de Janeiro last night.

It started with Hand's On-semble which featured this amazing percussionist from Iran, I beleive. I didn't get his name but he played this very flat and high pitched frame drum, displaying an amazing virtuosity and was soon juggling with three of those drums while playing the fastest, tightest licks I have ever seen. The other 6 percussionists from around the world also took their solos in turn.

Then we had Robertinho Silva who also showed great virtuosity on the little frying pan (frigadera) and then he showed his skills on another 10 intruments.

Then Mino Cinelu showed what it is like to be stucked in the 80s for ever, not a pretty sight! All by himself he showed his licks on various intruments.

Then came the big attraction Gionavi Hidalgo with an amzing talking drum player. The duo proceeded to try and outdo each other with the most amazing virtuosity.

About half way through their set I was so bored with all this I had to go.

Now, I am absolutely passionate about percussion and all the techniques from around the world ; and those were the best players in the world, or so they say in ther media.

But am I alone in thinking that the modern percussion scene is turning into a competitive sport? Or worse a circus?

Where did the music go? The groove? Giovani plays so many notes there is absolutely no space to breathe what so ever. It is a barrage of licks only supposed to stun you. The shock and awe of drum playing.

I miss the groove terribly, the empty spaces where the groove really catches you off guard and makes you want to get up and dance.

Where are the Patato Valdez, the Mongo Santamaria, the Osssam Ramzy, the Mamadou Keita, the Nana Vasconcelos of today?

Is it really all there is to look forward to? Playing like a machine?
Studying rudiments to death and then inflicting them on an audience?
I am beginning to wonder. I was talking to a lot of professional percussionist at the show and they were all commenting on the various virtusosities displayed. No one mentioned grooves, musicality, subtlity, or interplay.

It was entertaining the way jugglers are, but for me it was so UN-INSPIRING! After an hour of this I got so bored and even annoyed at this contempt for music and the audience. I was shocked as well by the truly astounding display of inflated egos showing off their skills the way insecure teenagers do.
I always thought that with great mastery came humility and simplicity.
The ability to express so much with so little, build the deepest grooves with a beautiful economy of movement and energy.

If I must compare, I would say that I would like to be striving for the beauty expressed in martial arts not the gross display of body-builders.

Am I alone?

[zwar]

ho tone

you are not alone.

there is no song, no melody, no tears and no laughter in that kind of music.

sad thing that...

zwar

[JohnnyConga]

Hi Tone ..very observant and very true..Im an "ol skooler" from the first school....tradition in playing was a must...soloing was some thing that just happened....speed wasn't a must....rudiments were for a drum and bugle corp....not for congas...but that has all changed now..and it's become all the things u witnessed...and it becomes an "overload" on the rhythmic senses....where is the "conversation"?...competition is a GOOD thing or what else could u judge yourself by? , but it has beome more competitive or what I call"conga-slingers", cats just trying to "outdo" one another with all this rudimentary approach.....where is the "soul"? Academia versus Experience?....I'll take experience anyday over Academia....Mongo is now gone, Patato is near gone, others carry the "torch" I am one of those, and there are others, we are just not as well known or in the spotlight like the Giovanni's of the world....and now there are many of those.....I still believe simplicity is key!....less IS more!....I have learned and will continue to learn all I can on the drum, I am now in my 41st year, and my studies continue......as .I pass the "tradition" on..."JC" Johnny Conga....

[Derbeno]

Cannot agree more. Case in point look at comments on some youtube videos re which of the new wave congueros is the best, almost like school playground talk.

[Diceman]

Hey Tone,

Good rant and oh so true. A good solo tells a story.
As JC says less is more, and as I say, silence even has a musical symbol.
Long live the groove!!
Abracos to you and yours.

Diceman

[Mike]

Well-said tone, couldn´t agree more. The only true musician is striving for perfection, but stays humble in his heart. Showing off is not the thing, communicating is it, but not blasting someone away.... That´s what is missing so often these days.
One word on virtuosity: I think Angà was one of those rare cases where incredible musical talent and virtuosity was paired with the humbleness I´ve mentioned before.
When talking about soloing, there´s nothing bad about virtuosity, though, unless you overstate the case. To make a comparison: One wouldn´t want to have all the spices in a dish at the same time....

[windhorse]

Yes,, Good rant!! :angry:

I went and saw Zakhir Hussain and Ustad Alaraca play about 6 years ago, and I sat mesmerized thoroughly amazed by the whole performance. So, naturally I shared the experience of being so amazed with my drum teacher. And he sort of snorted that he saw that show and had to leave early since he had gotten so bored with it. At the time, I was shocked that a drum teacher wouldn't appreciate it. But, years later I understood. Now I agree with you guys,, but to the untrained average Joe, they're impressed by juggling, flashy showmanship, and all that crap.. That was my rant in the smiling thread, and it was probably misplaced in that thread since smiling is hardly flashy showmanship. That's where you bare your soul and share your heart.

This is pretty much a direct quote from my teachers:
Actually, "showing off" just by itself isn't a bad thing, but doing it through a whole performance is NOT enjoyable. Good percussion should have tension (this is where the showing off can happen) and release (here's where the musician should relax). This way, when the adrenalin comes, it is that much more affective at moving the listener, or dancer.

[Raymond]

This has happened for several years already....Who's at fault? The Giovanni Hildago "fever"...of a good percussionist that could provide with a show just by himself. To make things worst, the lack of good ensembles that showcase percussionists in the latin genre, salsa or jazz. Forcing good percussionist to be "free lance" and having to show chops all the time...

It is great to see Giovanni and other marvels playing by themselves but you don't see or listen music with them.

What is worst? The kids are like that and their parents want them to show all their chops. You should see the gatherings of percussinists, top ones, and the kids are playing all over. One great percussionist told me that most likely those kids cannot play with a group. Isn't the point of playing an instrument and being good at it to play with some sort of ensemble or group? That was the idea of a Tito Puente and others but that is gone...

Who was with Giovanni? I good friend of mine, one of Puerto Rico top percussionists was supposed to go.

Saludos!

[Tone]

with Giovanni it was Sikiru Adepoju from Nigeria on the Talking Drum.

Thanks for all the comments. There was some really insighful and heartfelt ideas here.

I am not feeling so alone anny more.

It is true that we are missing some good bands to feature those percussionists. Why can't Giovanni play in a **** hot Latin Jazz group in which his chops would find a natural way of expessing themselves?

I saw Eddy Palmieri in London a couple of weeks ago and that was a great band playing together! No showing off, just music! But of course it was under the thumb of the old master who has nothing to prove.

Lets not forget that plaing congas is not an end in itself, it is only the mean for expression and communication for something worhwhile not a way imposing one's ego on an audience.

Thanks to all

[Congadelica]

As a relative newcomer to Congas and the percussion scene, I`ve also noticed that there has been a swing in later years kind of a bling bling thing. I’ve been deeply engrossed into all thing Congas and percussion over the past year, and while at first I was bedazzled with Gio`s performances and his imitators I’ve soon become bored with this style.
That’s not to say there isn’t a place for this kind of thing , I just feel it deflected for me in the first instance the true essence of Congas , its History , culture and for me most important the spirit of Latin music . A recent trip to Cuba left me feeling totally refreshed by all the music on offer to my ears, from beach roaming player to top night club Rumberos.
Tone you just put it all together for me my Bro thanks.

So now what we need is the likes of Old (NOI J*C*) stager A la J*C* and other s to spread the word not in competition by Posting more Conga playing giving guys like me the chance to hear what’s still kicking around .

Peace Brothers .

Marco.



Edited By Congadelica on 1180279855

[ozrivera]

Saludos Hermanos
I concur, in recent years speed and chops have become very popular over the groove.
but on the defense of those percussionist on that show, that doesnt mean that these guys cant play a good groove. these guys are only playing what the event planner asked them to paly. and it seems to me that it was just that type of event (shock and awe of percussion)
but question still remains
Why are they booking so many shows like this? instead of groovy ensemble.
is it that this is what the market wants?
is the shock and awe of percussion driving ticket sales?
or are too many percussionist trying to out do each other?
or are we just looking at the new generation of percussionist where the groove has become a dying art?
either way i feel your pain, nothig like a funky, tasty groovy solo.

thats all i got to say about that! ???

Oz

[pavloconga]

Hey guys,
I saw a video on YouTube recently called: "Puerto Rico Conga Masters Round 1".

Yes, some amazing percussionists (including Giovanni) but I didn't quite get the point of the whole thing. To my taste it didn't seem to be about the music, but more about 'you better show what incredible chops you got'.

If you want to see what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnL-aAPG0d8

I think the title says it all, it was more like a sporting event.


Contrast such an event with seeing Anga y Tata Guines play together with a full latin jazz ensemble:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co-EX5aJYvk

Anga and Tata firing off each other with deep grooves and sparse yet tasteful solos. Watching these guys on the other hand, inspires me and gives me goose bumps the whole way through!

regards
Pavlo



Edited By pavloconga on 1180390856

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[zwar]

ho

ozrivera is right, of course. i know paoli mejias (the second player in that video mentioned by pavlo) as a real good musician playing in band context, not only a skilled soloist. being technically good player doesnt mean loosing track of musical feeling.
but its a very different thing to play solo on your own, just going to where you want, or to put your solo into a running tune, often restricted to a certain amount of measures (jazz).

a lot of those competition events is pushed ahead by the big manufacturers, they want to show what can be done on conga, put their endorsers on stage with nothing else to draw attention away.
to be honest, normal music-consumers do not watch the conga but the singer and the leading melodyinstruments. so we live our lifes in some shady corner and tap along our grooves, the man at the mixing console has already done everything to make us unhearable, no chance to mess up the music.

worst case, that. but happens.

a great temptation to say: pah, i do not need anybody, look, here i am, and this is what i am able to do! and: No, i am not afraid to compare to others, lets look who is the real mccoy!
:angry:

thats all right, nothing wrong at all.

to be true, i am mainly interested in making music, congas are just instruments to do that, limited to provide the power, whereas the melody provides the emotion.
put both together and then call it music. :laugh:

blessings

zwar

[Amber]

Hi,

one couldn´t it say better zwar. Exactly what I thought when seeing this videoclip of Puerto Rico Conga Masters. This is not meant as a concert in a traditional sense, this is a promotion event for percussion instruments.

:p greetings

Amber

[congamyk]

OK, I'm going to be controversial ONLY for the sake of discussion for a moment. A year ago there was a thread about Poncho Sanchez, a conguero I love and many others on this board love also. But there was also some dissent in the thread as to wether Poncho had great "chops" and if he was really an "all-star" or not.

Since we are talking about the new scene and how much of the attitude seems to be about how fast and loud you can play rather than sound and groove. I think that's one of the reasons I dig Poncho Sanchez - he's not flashy and doesn't try to overplay. He's a conguero that has been steady, groovin and keeping the conga SOUND and groove first and foremost.

What does everyone else think?