Congas and djembe

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Congas and djembe

Postby CongaTick » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:47 am

This was touched on only in passing on a thread quite awhile back, but thought I would get some updated discussion. I play a three drum (quinto, conga, tumba) setup plus a big 18" Remo djembe which I incorporate for accents and work into patterns, depending on the tempo and the feel of the music. The djembe seems to work within the conga context only if used very discriminately. At other times its sound is intrusive and dissonamt. I'm hoping forummers may have come across examples (or personal experience) of using a djembe within a conga setup.
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby Garvin » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:24 pm

I think I actually may have started the thread that you are referring too. I was asking about soloing within the guaguanco using a djembe instead of quinto. BUT here are my thoughts about your question.

The overall sound of the djembe is generally a lot thinner than conga depending on what kind of djembe you are playing. Iwould say that the closest sound tone-wise would be a bass djembe headed with a thick cow-skin. Its not a bass djembe because of the sound you get from the bass hit, but the tone is super low, more like a segundo, or tumba. The mass-produced drums tend to be good for their low end, but nothing else (in my opinion). I know a lot of these companies have produced high-end solo instruments but I honestly just don't think they sound like djembes.

As your remo relates to your setup I guess it comes down to tuning and personal preference. The few times that my djembe has been within reach when I'm playing a tumbao or something, I feel like it is so thin and high that it sounds out of place. I guess I wouldn't want to play my djembe as an extra drum because the voices are so radically different, as you said it sounds "intrusive and dissonant". Ultimately its totally a matter of personal preference and the ability to defend yourself against the djembe players that might see you up there with a remo and want to ask you "whats up with that toy drum?" LOL! You obviously have a good sense of the sound already and if you are comfortable using it, then I would continue to do so. I rarely see it pulled off well... But then again, I rarely see it at all.

Peace...

~G
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby CongaTick » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:55 pm

Garvin, thanks for your response and opinion. Very helpful, adding fuel to my careful consideration of djembe inclusion beyond accent notes. My 18 inch Remo "toy", though tuned low, still sounds thinny if used as an additional note in a conga pattern. So for now, accents only... though this guy seems to use it as primary in th mix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7C3lR7W ... re=related
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby Garvin » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:53 pm

Hmmm.... I'm kind of confilcted about stuff like that. As a drumset player, I would have a hard time listening to someone just flailing around the kit like that, or a piano for that matter. I will say that he was kind of playing a pattern at some point, but I think that this is a good example of someone who is either A) Messing around with a bunch of different drums, but actually has some idea what he's doing (which I hope is the case) B) Someone who doesn't have any idea what they are doing (which I don't think is the case judging by the fairly nice instruments) or C) Someone with a tenuous understanding of some basic percussive principles who ended up buying a bunch of "bongos" and "Jambays" and decided to film himself whacking off on youtube.

I don't mean to be overly critical. I've seen a lot worse on youtube, but maybe if he were to play an actual ryhthm and convince me that the djembe was being used for a reason other than 'its in the way of my hands', I might appreciate it more.

Also, I noticed that he was using a high-tuned solo djembe which sounded really out of place, particularly since he wasn't really saying anything, or creating solo phrases like you would hear from the quinto or djembe regularly. I think the sangban sounded fine over there and you can see how a low-tuned cowhide African drum has a similar tonality to a conga or tumba. The djembe, I would almost liken more to the Bongo, or even timbales in terms of its cutting power and potential for creating havoc and cacauphony when wielded irresponsibly.

Again, I'm seriously just giving my own opinion, I know there are no rules and folks can do whatever they want with these drums. I just get defensive when I see them utterly misidentified or otherwise misused.
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby pavloconga » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:33 am

CongaTick wrote:This was touched on only in passing on a thread quite awhile back, but thought I would get some updated discussion. I play a three drum (quinto, conga, tumba) setup plus a big 18" Remo djembe which I incorporate for accents and work into patterns, depending on the tempo and the feel of the music. The djembe seems to work within the conga context only if used very discriminately. At other times its sound is intrusive and dissonamt. I'm hoping forummers may have come across examples (or personal experience) of using a djembe within a conga setup.


Hi Congatick,
It can be done but I haven't heard to many people do it really well. If you PM me your email address I can send you an MP3 of a great example of my teacher Adotey Richter (pictured below) in Ghana playing djembe with 3 kpanlogos (which sound much like congas). He pulls it off masterfully.
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby CongaTick » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:33 pm

Pavlo,

Have to agree with you on the link. My research so far shows this combo as pretty much a dead end for most of us. Thanks guys for taking the moments to respond.
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby CongaTick » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:35 pm

Apologies -- was responding to Garvin (AND Pavlo)
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby Garvin » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:45 pm

.........oops wrong link
Last edited by Garvin on Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby Joseph » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:04 pm

Garvin wrote:The Djembe....creating havoc and cacophony when wielded irresponsibly.

Sounds like my local hippy-dippy drum circle / slamathon. :oops:

I saw Angelique Kidjo, and her backup group not too long ago.
Had a trap drummer & percussionist.
Percussionist had full complement: 3 conga set on stands, 2 different size Djembes on stands, every possible hand percussion piece you could imagine.
He was very versatile at switching his percussion instrument within the rhythmic framework of the song being played, but he never mixed conga / djembes.
Congas were used mostly for melodic / rhythmic groove of main body of songs performed.
Djembes, when used, were used only for breaks / accents...sometimes extended accents that really changed the character of the groove.
Djembes were large & smaller for two different tones and often played together...but not like congas.
They were very sharp and cutting.

~Joseph
Last edited by Joseph on Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby pavloconga » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:29 pm

CongaTick wrote:Pavlo,

Have to agree with you on the link. My research so far shows this combo as pretty much a dead end for most of us. Thanks guys for taking the moments to respond.


Hi congatick,
I didn't actually make any comment on the link above - I think you might be thinking of Garvin's comment. My response to the video above: I don't think it was a good example of using the djembe and conga together. I don't think it worked musicially. However, that doesn't mean it's not possible. The combination can be used in a contemporary music situation (e.g. funk, jazz), but I think it needs a lot of skill and sensitivity to the music being played.

Apart from the mp3 I sent to you of Adotey Richter (where he combines djembe and kpanlogo beautifully) the only other person I have seen really master it is also one my first teachers - Ray Pereira in Australia. (He has some vids on Youtube that you can lookup, but playing conga only I think).

Glad you like the mp3 of Adotey. He's a master that's for sure.

cheers
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby JConga » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:05 pm

IMHO...the jimbe is a drum by itself like the conga drum...2 different distinct drums played totally different in approach and technique...as i was taught on jimbe u play "off" the drum and on conga u play "on" it....2 different techniques....now in a multi percussion setup u may want to add a jimbe for "accenting" or maybe even to cover a groove if its an "african" related rhythm.....i would never use it in a "Latin" or "Pop" music setting ever....just not done....nobody plays tumbao on jimbe.....the way the gentleman in the video is playing is cool.....but it seems limited and only using the jimbe one way,actually more like a conga drum than a jimbe....the difference is sound of course and how and when the jimbe can be used.....the jimbe is an African invention and the Conga drum is a Cuban invention.....Johnny Conga
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby CongaTick » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:15 pm

Once again this forum and its resident pros have kept me on a good path and helped me avoid sidetrips that may just waste the little energy I've got left at 66!. I suspected use of the djembe as an included drum was a faulty premise (though I've tried with only minor success, and then only as accent) and you guys have helped me confirm that. Thanks for helping me realize it wasn't for lack of trying on my part but rather, the dificulty of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Story of my life. Thanks again, guys, for everything you bring to all of us.
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby Amber » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:53 pm

Hi,
famous djembe master Famoudou Konate shows one example for tasteful adding a conga to a djembe/malinke orchestra on his cd Hamana Mandenkönö. You find the conga playing on the last song M' Besöma.
Guem et Zaka also mix djembes and congas and other kinds of percussion instruments of different cultural origin in an interesting way.

:) Amber
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby CongaTick » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:13 pm

Amber, thanks for referring me to such great exceptions. There's no question that djembe inclusion (or in this case conga inclusion) works well in certain folkloric settings. I was trying to figure whether they had a place in other, more conventional music where congas have an appropriate home. I'm still of the opinion djembe can be used very discriminately under those circumsatnces, but only as a carefully placed accent.
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Re: Congas and djembe

Postby Chupacabra » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:58 am

Percussionist had full complement: 3 conga set on stands, 2 different size Djembes on stands, every possible hand percussion piece you could imagine.


Angelique and her band played here back in February and the percussionist was playing congas/sabar drums/bongos/mini cymbals and a djembe came out during an interlude and the encore and not combine with congas at all. I guess he must have switched things up somewhere between Victoria and Florida.
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