Getting slap tone

[pavloconga]

Hi Guys,
I have had a look around on You Tube and couldn't find anything approaching what I consider (IMHO) to be the correct/proper technique for conga slap like I saw in Cuba. Also, there's different approaches by different players. The true test is whether they're getting a loud, sharp, crystal clear slap.

If not, then something's wrong. I haven't come across anyone online with a proper demo yet.

If I had a video camera I could show what I know - but I would not claim to be at the level of the master players in Cuba etc.

cheers
Pavloconga

p.s. Good idea Congatick about the basic strokes demo for Congaplace.



Edited By pavloconga on 1182898798

[Tonio]

Isn't it sad that people have to result to $$$ to teach anything? I learned from listening, since there was no conga teacher anywhere in sight. Hell I learned from a metal lunch box, and pots and pans. I was corrected just by watching any "pro" conga player( in a traditional sense) that came close to whre I was living. The 1st opportunity was Armando w/ Santana back in the 70's, and mind you I was watching from the 30 th row from the stage. I had to take a2 hours train ride just for the concert.
Fast forward about 20 years : My 1st proper lesson was on BATA. @ $10 bucks for however long it lasted-usually to try to get through the Oru Seco. after a while I learned the Oru Seco. Due to personal reasons and modern ideology of Santeria, I could no longer continue playing BATA. I think the only reason why I even had to pay was for the time spent not for monetary gain.
At any rate, a video could help in our modern times, but learning from a a good teacher can result in rewards. As Palvo mentokned , each has his own style too. IMO any "master" from Cuba could of great learning source. But its how you apply the curicula to you r advantage.
Every conguero has their own style to an extent, and may include the playing style. Obsorb any thing you can , and take what you like to to strive for, and practice until you reach that goal. You may never get there, but you never end learning.
Learning is a never ending process.

T



Edited By Tonio on 1182918734

[jorge]

I don't think you can perfect your slap from seeing it demonstrated either on video or live. The hand movements are too fast and too subtle to see clearly. Slight differences, too subtle to see, in how you hit the drum can make a major difference in the sound. First get a basic idea from watching good drummers in person or on video. From that point on, the best way I know is to sit there every day with your drum and just practice your slaps for 5 or 10 minutes, one hand at a time, varying your technique a little at a time and LISTENING to how it sounds. Pay attention to the ones that sound just right (you WILL get some) and try to duplicate them. Do it when your family and neighbors are out, it is fun to do, but not fun to listen to. You will get it, but expect it to take time. Took me a couple of months to get close, and then a few more years to really feel I could control the sound. Now, after 35 years playing, I get nice sounding slaps ALMOST all the time, on most drums, with most tunings. Like other musical instruments, there is a real art to it. If it was easy, it wouldn't fascinate us so much!

[JohnnyConga]

oK ...i teach and charge money for teaching and have been doing it for over 25 years.. I had to pay "my dues" to learn, so nothing comes for free.. Now that doesnt mean I don't "share" what i know with others for free, but u got to "hang" with me to get that... .

.now to the slap...i dont have video capability yet to show u guys how to slap a conga drum.. I get 3 slaps
Open( it doesnt stay on the drum when stroked), closed( sticks to the head when stroked) and what i call the "Bata/Patato" slap at the top center of the drum with my left hand, which is also an "open" slap...I was actually taught how to slap, even without raising my hands and about a 1/4 of an inch "over" the head.and kinda "pushing" the slap into the drum..I wish I could show u how that one is done..NOBODY and I mean nobody ever slaps like that, not even Gio, not that he couldnt do it of course...and i dont really use it myself, its just a "technique" approach....i can get a slap almost out of anything, table top , car top , mailbox, almost any flat surface....it's about "technique" guys..."JC" Johnny Conga....

[burke]

Gentlemen ...(Especially Mr. Congatick) Thanks so much for picking my little question up again! I thought it had died and was a tad sad that had happened.

Jorge: You are right. You can't learn a slap from a video …but as you go on to say (correct me if I’m misinterpreting you) it does give you a basis from which to start the needed practice.

The attempt to verbally describe something like a slap has obvious limitations – but combined with the proverbial ‘picture (moving) worth a thousand words’ can be very helpful.

The “right way”

So what prompted my question was the critique of the fellows myspace demo. I looked at it and didn’t find it that bad (ie. High knuckles/cupping hand & sideways motion). I have the Bobby Sanabria videos and it rather looked like his – “hand cupping water from a bucket” analogy.

There have been (as we all know) many many many discussions on the slap. So some visual aids from various folks to illustrate the subtleties would be great – and that was what I was fishing for.

So ya got your Muted Slap (my first and till recent years ONLY slap)
Your Closed Slap
Your Open Slap (I’m still kinda fuzzy about what that is)
Your “Tapado” (the kinder gentler slap – more that a muff/less than the sound of a rifle being fired)
and the “Bata slap”

In all these discussions there (it seems to me) is variation among players of ‘right’ technique.

My suspicion is that the correct technique is the one you were taught and that if I got a few of you guys in a room (who have good slaps) and closed my eyes I wouldn’t be able to tell who was who (given I’m not already familiar with you individual sounds) EVEN with differing techniques.

Last thought:

What about Pete Lockett’s slap online?

http://www.petelockett.com/pete%20new%20pages/Conga%20lessons.html

My guess – some will say its fine – others not

Let the games begin!

Darrell

[Congadelica]

The Slap explaine by my Conguero Mentor and teacher is like " the 1 inch punch " Bruce lee stylee. also its a force similar to chi but thats another subject , A sound created by negative forces which surround us .

Its one of those things you either find it or dont , I got the message first time from my Teacher and have built up with practice a mean slap , but I know things can get better with practice , some days its just not happening then I can approach my tumba and pull off a one off perfect slap . This to me instills the need for repatition DVD and video is only a pointer .

marco

[Whopbamboom]

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING shameful about a musician charging for his/her services!!!!!!! To expect them to spend hundreds and thousands of hours learning their craft, and also spending thousands and thousands of dollars for equipment/travel/schooling on top of that, and then turn around and start teaching for free would be completely absurd.

A musician has got to be able to earn their own keep. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. They have the same bills as everyone else, and a musician must spend hours and hours and hours on their craft and career-- often choosing to spend their time withy music over choosing to put in the hours with a non-musical job.

Now, if someone graciously offers stuff up for free, then of course it would be just as absurd to not take advantage of that. So if you can find the free info, definitely use that. But don't expect that all information should be provided for free...

[CongaTick]

SHAME not an issue. ANd I agree that the pros SHOULD CHARGE for instructional material. However, CongaPlace would be the RIGHT place to have some simple vidclip close-ups of stroke rudiment basics, hand positioning etc. Despite all of the mumbo-jumbo regarding slap execution (though I agree much of its succes has to do with experiential discovery) a CongaPlace link to a series of close-ups can show us basic hand positioning on the rim and a slow execution of the stroke--- all to be used as a starting point for an interested newbie.

[conganoob]

I have to admit that as a novice I have already become fascinated with the slap tone and my attempts to "find it". I just got the Thomas Cruz course and have been watching the video. Of course, the slap has been the most challenging. Actually, it's been kind of fun sitting there and trying to find the proper technique. I will get something approaching a proper slap about once out of every five or six tries (Remember, I'm still learning).

My wife walked by as I was practicing slaps this morning and stared at me in confusion. My chihuahua Napoleon also came up to me and proceeded to bark once in response to each of my strikes.

I'm in love with my new conga.

[CongaTick]

Once out of 5 or 6? That ain't bad. You will be surprised how quickly that ratio improves with practice. Paying for an instructor for at least a few sessions will insure your strokes are dead-on and that you won't hurt yourself.

[Tonio]

Let me make one thing straight about the paid lessons.
I am not against it, I am for it.
However, my point was: its not the payment that makes it legit, its what you get out of it.
It depends on who you pay to learn, but when you are just starting up how are you to know if the teacher is any good? Well if he/she is a big name , of course, but just a local guy you will need to check him out on gigs etc. But don't forget a good performer does not make them a good teacher. Group teachings are very common, some are good, some are just whatever.

p.s. paying your dues does not mean paying money for lessons, its the learning and working the gigs to the point where you have a level of competance and fellow musicians that will call for you. What level of band is another topic.


Just some thoughts.

T



Edited By Tonio on 1183060139

[Whopbamboom]

Isn't it sad that people have to result to $$$ to teach anything?

My comments had to do with the coment quoted here. Sorry if I misunderstood.


That being said, yes it would be nice if there was something available online for free to help those of us that don't live anywhere near a teacher. But, of course video's that cost a little money are available aplenty, and that shouldn't stop us guys in the boonies from learning proper techniques. It's not all that much money to have a DVD shipped to your door-- it's actually cheaper than driving over to see a teacher in person! (don't get me wrong, in-person instruction should be even better), but if money is the issue, I have to say that DVD's are an inexpensive way to receive schooling.

On the other hand, there are a LOT of videos to choose from, and I am certain that only a few really show proper striking techniques. If people here on this forum make recommendations as to WHICH videos have excellent slap instruction, then it would help us make the proper selection of those videos and make for more effective use of our money.

[JohnnyConga]

If u were near me and i was to take you on as one of my "grasshoppers" if u didnt have cash , you would provide Food, if not food, then to do something around the house....for anything to be truly appreciated one must "earn it".....and that is just the way it is..you want a degree at college , u have to "earn it"... and "work for it"....same thing with anything that you want to learn to do... I also "take" my "grasshoppers" to my gigs to watch and learn, dont charge them for that and they have a night out on the house...and we can be ourselves together...."JC" Johnny Conga...

[Grateful1]

JC-

I would gladly cook and do house chores if you would teach me to conga.

[JohnnyConga]

Well if you wanted to, we could set up something, where possibly could come to my home in Seattle for a week, for learning purposes....kinda like a "Conga Camp" with me....if this is something your willing to do email me privetly and we can set it up.....you could stay here in my home....we can talk about price privetly.....and this goes for any others here that want "private instruction" with me....I am serious about this .....johnnyconga@hotmail.com ....."JC" Johnny Conga...