Sandy Perez Rhythms

[bongosnotbombs]

I updated the Iyesa to include the call / response for the bells.

Also here is guaguanco and yambu from Sandy Perez.

[Laurent Lamy]

Hi, and thanks for the infos ! But where is the call and response of the yesa's bell in this score

[bongosnotbombs]

Laurent,
If you look in the last 3 lines of the first block, on the side it is labeled bell #1 call, bell #2 response,
the bell patterns change slightly from bell #1's x x xx to x x x x and bell #2 from __xx__xx to __xx_xxx
more or less. It's just a small break in the pattern.
The iyesa pattern is in my first post in this thread.

[Laurent Lamy]

Thanks !

[vinnieludovico]

bombs ,thanx for the post.A note on the Iyesa,is the clave reversed on the Caja part ?(lower part)I always thought the three open tones lay on the three side?Please correct me if I'm mistaken(check w/Sandy)I know some times Iyesa is taught starting on the two side.Perhaps all these parts are reversed?I hope I am communicating this correctly.Much Respect to you!
Vinnie

[windhorse]

He has the #4 drum, lowest, written with the third tone on the first strike of clave on the "three" side.
This has been a source of confusion for the past 10 years I've been learning this stuff.. Last I heard those three tones should roll into the (3) or third main downbeat, or just before the last two strikes of clave, - the two side.

Maybe one of the source of problems with Iyesa is that it isn't played with clave. And many songs start right on the (3) as if it were the (1)..

[davidpenalosa]

Hi Dave,
The alignment of all the iyesa parts looks correct to me. It's just that they are written backwards to the clave reference at the top of the page. The chart is written in 2-3, which as we all know ( ), is not appropriate for folkloric rhythms. The clave reference should remain, but the parts should be reversed.

Iyesa functions in ways typical of other clave-based rhythms. The clave patterns itself does not need to be played in order for the rhythm to conform to clave principles.
-David

[bongosnotbombs]

Hi Dave,
The alignment of all the iyesa parts looks correct to me. It's just that they are written backwards to the clave reference at the top of the page. The chart is written in 2-3, which as we all know ( ), is not appropriate for folkloric rhythms. The clave reference should remain, but the parts should be reversed.

Iyesa functions in ways typical of other clave-based rhythms. The clave patterns itself does not need to be played in order for the rhythm to conform to clave principles.
-David

David,
Your absolutely right. I should have pointed this out earlier, this is a 4/4 sheet that I have pre-printed which has clave
included in it at the top. Iyesa the way we learnt it is not played with the claves. Actually this sheet is 3-2 clave, if you look
closely there are 2 grey X's, one where Son clave should be and one where Rumba clave should be, you fill in the X on the sheet
to indicate which clave, I did not fill in one of the grey X's, indicating at least to myself that there is neither clave. And what I mean is that clave is not played with this rhythm, however there is a direction and Iyesa has sides.
I'm sorry if there is any confusion, I am trying to make this clear, but it's a method that is very clear for me and maybe a little
less so for others.

[davidpenalosa]

bongosnotbombs,
Even though the claves are not played with iyesa, the rhythm conforms to clave principles. Your use of clave at the top for reference is appropriate. You have written all the parts backwards to the clave though. Even if you did not have clave at the top for reference the parts would still be backwards. You show the drum and bell parts beginning half way through the rhythm.

What you are calling beat 1 is actually beat 3 and vice versa. Written within the correct beat scheme, the mula (mid), caja (lead) and bajo (lowest) typically enter on 2+ (primary ponche). The offbeat bell often enters on 2+ as well:

XX..XX..XX||.X.X..XX..XX..XX||


-David

[bongosnotbombs]

Well that's where the confusion begins, Sandy always teaches us this rhythm starting on pick up
right before the 4, he counts out, & 4 and on the A right before the 4 we come in with OHTS.
If he kept the B on the downbeat then we would actually be beginning on the 3, but we drop that bass note.

The way I've learnt it is that the rhythm really kind of begins on 3. If people assumed that was the 1 then
the BOOOTHS would happen on 1, next time aroud. but the way we learnt it is BOOTHS is on 3.

I think if it is assumed that we are beginning on the 3 side that would make my parts backward, but if
we are actually starting on the 2 side, just before 4 then doesn't that make the rhythm right ways forward?

Personally, in my opinion, I feel this rhythm with the parts in relationship to each other, and the bell provides
the downbeats, the bell doesn't change from side to side so it's the drums that determine the direction right?

[davidpenalosa]

Hi bongosnotbombs,
The issue of clave “direction” is not relevant here, but the sides of clave of course are. The patterns of the drums reveal how clave would be overlaid the rhythm (which is what I think you were trying to say). Sometimes the bells are played with two different distinct sides as well.

Sandy counted that part correctly. A lot of times folkloric masters attempt to help their students by counting, or adopting other terminology and concepts their students use, but the masters themselves don’t use. This can lead to more confusion rather than clarity, but in the situation you described Sandy counted the part correctly.

In your second paragraph you mention how you learned the rhythm, but I think you are talking about how you learned it from other teachers besides Sandy, right? That’s the only way I can make sense of what you said.
-David

[bongosnotbombs]

Hi bongosnotbombs,
The issue of clave “direction” is not relevant here, but the sides of clave of course are. The patterns of the drums reveal how clave would be overlaid the rhythm (which is what I think you were trying to say). Sometimes the bells are played with two different distinct sides as well.

Sandy counted that part correctly. A lot of times folkloric masters attempt to help their students by counting, or adopting other terminology and concepts their students use, but the masters themselves don’t use. This can lead to more confusion rather than clarity, but in the situation you described Sandy counted the part correctly.

In your second paragraph you mention how you learned the rhythm, but I think you are talking about how you learned it from other teachers besides Sandy, right? That’s the only way I can make sense of what you said.
-David

David,
I am only talking about this rhythm in relationship to my class with Sandy Perez, I'm talking about how I learned it from Sandy, and to how me and my friends in Sandy's class have been playing it together.
It is entirely possible I have my 1 2 3 4's switched, but I find it encouraging that you say the parts are correct in relationship to each other. To tell you the truth I am not 100% sure on how this rhythm begins and when the parts enter, so I did not include that in my transcription. Maybe that is adding to the confusion, but I notice a lot of transcriptions don't include that information either. I did feel very confident the parts were correct and wanted to share.
Typically as we work on this rhythm is someone begins the bell, then one drum starts, then the others come in when they feel comfortable, of course it's a work in progress. We've been having a lot of fun playing it though. My favorite part is drum 3 and I've been adapting drum 2 for other projects.

[davidpenalosa]

David,
I am only talking about this rhythm in relationship to my class with Sandy Perez, I'm talking about how I learned it from Sandy, and to how me and my friends in Sandy's class have been playing it together.<<

Then I'm confused about part of your post. No matter though, the drum and bell parts are correct. The only thing I would do is reverse the order of the sides. As it stands now, the parts don't align properly with the clave at the top of the page. I think it matters since you are posting this on the net.
-David

[bongosnotbombs]

Anyways, I'll be seeing Sandy tomorrow and will try and clear this up................

[davidpenalosa]

Cool. If I may offer a suggestion—clap clave over one of the two-sided drum parts for Sandy. I think that will more productive than counting.
-David