Sandy Perez Rhythms

[bongosnotbombs]

Cool. If I may offer a suggestion—clap clave over one of the two-sided drum parts for Sandy. I think that will more productive than counting.
-David

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. Thanks David for all you comments.

[taikonoatama]

Having attending the same Sandy Perez classes with Geordie, let me just throw out some stuff for what it's worth.

Sandy taught us this Iyesa part by part in the following manner (and I just re-listened to my recording of the class.)

1. He counted the pulse alone as "1, 2, 3, 4" and then started playing a given part on the next ONE, if that's its entry point (like drum #1), or, for drum #4, the bajo, the first open tone after the FOUR, or whatever. The parts may start at differing positions in relation to the 1234 pulse he counted out loud, but their relative positions to his 1234 pulse count and one another are as Geordie has laid out, with the exception of the bell variations, where the bell #2 ".xxx" is actually just after the ONE, and thus call the bell #1 variation rather then vice versa.

2. He never played clave with this Iyesa, though as Geordie mentioned, his notation on that front was inadvertent - one would assume that, in this version, it would have to be 2-3 to make sense in context. My guess is that when asked to play clave to this, though, he'll play 3-2 starting on what is notated here as the THREE pulse which, if written in the way Iyesa normally is, would really be the ONE pulse. I'd also guess that he'd find this conversation and confusion quite amusing.

I hear what everyone is saying about Cuban folkloric clave and patterns always being 3-2, but the fact is that Sandy Perez, former lead drummer for Grupo Afro-Cuba de Matanzas, played it as notated here. Would I be surprised if next class he flips it and makes what is now the 3-pulse the 1-pulse? Not in the slightest. Time is a very fluid thing for Sandy. And really we're just laying out how he brought in all the parts so they're lined up in respect to one another and the pulse.

James

[bongosnotbombs]

, with the exception of the bell variations, where the bell #2 ".xxx" is actually just after the ONE, and thus call the bell #1 variation rather then vice versa.

James

Sorry I flipped the bell variation guys, I was listening to it as I played a drum, guess I may have got the call - response variation to it in the wrong spot.....

Iyesa episode two after saturday with Sandy.

(oh yeah, I am the Geordie, James is referring too)

[windhorse]

Yep, clap clave and look at him to see if you're on the right side.

[davidpenalosa]

Hi James,
I think this is another example of a folkloric master offering both clarity and confusion by counting in a part. I don’t know how much formal music education Sandy may have had, but I’m certain that counting was not a component when he learned iyesa. Still, the fact that he put the “one” on the two-side is notable.
-David

[taikonoatama]

Hey David,

I hear you loud and clear on the Cuban-master counting-in issue, where their concept of 1,2,3,4 does not necessarily line up with the ONE as we non-Cubans generally understand it, and in fact sometimes does not even line up with the pulse. Clearly not something that most grew up doing, and in that culture and learning environment I suppose there was no real need.

I've attended several workshops with Sandy Perez as a teacher over the years, and something must have happened between July 2007 at the Humboldt workshops and now because Sandy is now a serial-counter, and it's consistently right with the pulse. He's all about the 1, 2, 3, 4, and in every rhythm we've done so far, with the possible exception of this Iyesa, his ONE lines up with the ONE of standard 6/8 bell, 6/8 arara bell, or 3-2 rumba clave. Still, for this Iyesa, in line with how he taught it and how it's notated by Geordie here, it should be 2-3 rumba clave, right? Geordie will have to get clarification on this tomorrow, as I'll be out of town.

James

[davidpenalosa]

James,
The issue of how to notate iyesa involves two major considerations—the conventions of representing metric schemes and the way Sandy counted in the parts. Since I consider iyesa a clave-based music, I consider clave the definer of the metric scheme. The four-beat cycle moves in an antecedent (three-side)—consequent (two-side) sequence. That puts the “one” on the three-side in all folkloric music. “One” is always the first beat of a measure.

Sandy’s counting contradicts clave’s metric scheme, so these two considerations are at odds with each other. Notating Sandy’s arrangement requires choosing between the two. Minus the clave on top, Geordie’s chart is an emic representation. If its purpose is to show exactly how Sandy taught it, then the 1, 2, 3, 4 should be where it is, but Sandy did not (yet) show iyesa in terms of clave. I would leave out “2-3” and other references to clave in an emic chart at this time.

While I’m interested in Sandy’s count, I prefer an etic approach of notating the rhythm. Clave is the organizing principle, so that’s how I represent the rhythms. Entering in the consequent half (two-side) of the rhythm does not prompt me to put the two-side at the beginning of the measure.

It’s my guess that Sandy’s counting came about from his interaction with North American drummers. However, iyesa is notated in the official two-volume “Instrumentos de la musica folcloirco-popular de cuba”, in one measure of 4/4 with the “one” on the two-side (though no clave is shown for reference). There’s no consistency in the notation methods in that encyclopedia, but clave is always written beginning on the antecedent half (three-side).

If Sandy is willing to clap clave to iyesa, he will come down on one side or the other. Hoping to read more data here soon Geordie.
-David



Emic

[vinnieludovico]

Hi guys, thank you all for your input!Very informative !Thanks to Dave Penalosa,Windhorse and bongosnotbombs for sharing your knowledge.
Vinnie (Syracuse,N.Y.)

[vinnieludovico]

Sorry,I left out taikonatama,thanx again !

[bongosnotbombs]

Okay so at the beginning of class I asked Sandy to play the drum #3 part while I played 3/2 rumba clave, and he played it with the part that goes BOOHTS on the 3 side of the clave with the B right on the one.

My previous location for the bell call/response was correct in relation to the other drum parts, and Sandy said it only happened on the 1 and that Bell #2 starts the conversation. So I had the location right, but the orders of the call was the way James said.

I do want to say that Sandy did not teach this with clave, and even though technically we had the parts flipped, it made no difference in how the piece sounded, and he was able to successfully transmit the rhythm to us. I previously wrote it exactly the way Sandy taught it with the numbers of the pulse as he counted. Saying that, I do think academically it's important to have it sequenced correctly, so I have updated the Iyesa sheet on the first page of this thread. I flipped the parts and also removed the clave marks. Even though the rhythm is organized according to clave principals, the way it was taught to me by Sandy, no 3/2 clave was actually played.

Anyways it's a great rhythm, especially that long sequence of slaps for drum #3, adds so much energy! Crack Cracrack crack crack..................G!

[davidpenalosa]

Thanks for doing that Geordie. Am I understanding correctly that you think writing the parts in relation to clave is more important than where Sandy put "one" in his "1, 2, 3, 4" count? That's what your new chart seems to be saying.
-David

[bongosnotbombs]

Dave,
I don't really want to say more important, but it seems obvious to me that Sandy when teaching Iyesa, which does
not have the 3/2 clave in it, was counting the downbeats and started counting the one simply from when he began counting.
Often when teaching rhythms he will start the counting at 3, and when he began with the beginning of drum #3 he began from & 4.

The Iyesa bell, to me does not really say which side is the one, but in the presence of clave being played, it clearly shows which side the "One" is on.

[bongosnotbombs]

One more update on the Abakua pattern, Sandy said you could play clave
on the bell as a bell variation, and also he showed us an alternate pattern
for the cuhciyerma, which is very cool.

The alternate cuchiyerma pattern is HSTHOTHSTHOT
with the cuchiyerma call being. HSTHOTHSTHOO

all heel toes with the left, all opens and slaps with the right.

this alternate fits the rhythm in a very similar way, but the sticking
is of course very different

[davidpenalosa]

I agree with your take on Sandy's count. Thanks for sharing this. The concept of "one" in 4/4 iyesa will continue to come up.

The main rhythmic motif in iyesa can be distilled down to two cells of tresillo, with the first stroke displaced in the first cell.

-X-X--X-

X--X--X-

Since the three-side is typically expressed as offbeats, there are no on-beats on the three-side of this motif. The stroke on beat 1 of tresillo is displaced to 1e. There is no accent on beat 1, so the on-beat emphasis occurs on beat 3. This on-beat emphasis is the focal point for a lot of drummers.

||-x-x--x-|X--x--x-||

This is also the basic motif for guaguanco:

||-Q-B--T-|S--S--T-||

Q = quinto (high)
B = tumba bass (low)
T = tumba (low)
S = segundo (mid)

It's also the rhythm of the Cuban mozambique bombo drum part. In timba the kick drum plays the pattern and the backbeats are added on the snare.

-X-XS-X-X--XS-X-

X = kick bass drum
S = snare

When this motif is the basis of the rhythm, many drummers orientate themselves towards the on-beat side, even though its the consequent, or resolution half of the cycle.
-David

[windhorse]

Nice Picture Geordie, Sandy will always have that ageless smile
And thanks for sharing all the transcription! I'll print them out and we'll have to give them a go!