beginners nerves

[JohnnyConga]

Ok ..when i first started out, my knees used to shake while i was sitting and playing....and to solo was a fear I had for a long time...I have also been on the stage since i was 9 years old, started as a child actor, and felt natural on the stage...but it wasnt until I became a musician in New York City that, really put me to the test...in NYC other good musicians at your gig would stand right in front of the stage and watch what u did...now to me that was the most "pressure" as a player I have ever felt ,,,,being "judged" by my Conga peers, that were in some cases much better than me...and THAT was the hardest thing to overcome was being judged by my conga peers..some were negative , but most were postive...their is a "competitive" spirit in NYC, that is not like anywhere else,and it just MAKES u a better player....Today i have no thinking process before i play, except to "play my heart out!" and give the most I can give on my instrument to the band Im playing with ,and for the people dancing or listening...I even played Carnegie Hall with a broken leg and I wasn't nervous...but if I had to sit down in front of a Changuito or Roberto Viscaino.. i may be a bit "tentative" in my playing....even with all my experience......."JC" Johnny Conga...

[CongaTick]

Wow JC,
I think if I had that kind of pressure on me with all those congueros standing up front watching every move I make, I'm sure I would be so nervous I'd probably throw up. For you to go through that ring of fire and for the better means you're a helluva musician!

[JohnnyConga]

Thank you Congatick...Im still in "the ring of fire" everyday!....with u younger cats coming up behind me,I got's to be ready....hahahahahaaha... "JC" Johnny Conga....

[Grateful1]

Hello Friends very intresting topic here. and great feedback.

My situation is quite different however. For me learning all the basic rudiments and patterns is very difficult, and requires much patients that i dont always have. I have all the different strokes down and I am very comfortable with the tumbao, but I never take the time to learn all the many other conga rythyms.

I feel most comfortable improvising and playing in front of other people. You can tell how well you are playing by the reaction of the crowd. I have gotten up on stage with a band I had never seen before, and played a few songs with them I had never heard. all improvise. for me this was no problem and felt quite natural.
(my friend was the lead guitarist)

For me it is about absorbing the music and using my hands to bring the rythym and melody out of my drums. My congas are capable of great harmonious melodies, so it is just up to me, to not let my hands ruin that.

Like many of you, when i hear giovannis "hand siezures"(just kidding lol) it misses the music for me. It becomes a showcasing of speed and patterns rather than feeling the music. Afterall, thats part of the reason I play drums, it is so natural. The world turns to a certain rythym. the rythym exists rather there is music being played or not.

however, i did just order giovaanis conga virtuosuo so maybe my humble opinions will change once i watch the video. also I am sure once i feel like i am no longer progressing, I will take the guidance of a professional teacher. but as for now, it feels like i am learning more and more every day, so why pay somone else just to learn thier style.

is it possible to truly master your own style on congas without learning the countless patterns and rudiments?

also if anyone knew of aplace to easy locate and decipher such patterns I would be happy to check it out. for instance is there a thread where some of u pros lay down the patterns more simply
(exp.)
H-T-S-T-H-T- O O


Thanks for any advice. Much love for my brothers and sisters of the tubs.

[JohnnyConga]

I have been playing for 41 years and believe to have "my own" style,which is of course a combination of Mongo-Tata-Patato-Baretto- Gio.....and me.... ..you would have to see my "manos del trapo" "rag hands" as the Cubans in Miami 'tagged" me...to see how I play... My style has been described to me as a "floating" hand style, "hovering" over the drums as I play...u see them move and hear the sounds, but not necessarily see the 'strike" of my hands on the drums....that is the best way i can describe "my" style, as decribed to me by other congueros....Also to learn anything on your own without "guidance' is difficult to do, and still have to live and work....."JC" Johnny Conga.....PS the method u show below I call my method S.T.O.M.P.....slap tone open muffle palm.....and teach using this method...among others...

[Grateful1]

JC-

could u briefly define ur stomp method.

is S an open slap or closed>???

difference between open and tone??? t-o

and briefly describe ur style for the muffled sound???

thanks for ur help!

[pavloconga]

For me learning all the basic rudiments and patterns is very difficult, and requires much patients that i dont always have. I have all the different strokes down and I am very comfortable with the tumbao, but I never take the time to learn all the many other conga rythyms.

is it possible to truly master your own style on congas without learning the countless patterns and rudiments?

Hi,
Just my humble opinion-
I'm sure it's possible, but I think it's like to studying to be a great writer: you have to know the alphabet, you have to know the language and how to put words and phrases together. You have to study the masters. It takes time.

The rudiments of the congas are like the building blocks, you put them together and create new things.

Whatever new rhythms and rudiments you learn will always be there for you to draw on. It's like having some money in the bank - you don't always use it, but when you need it, it's there.

I've said this before on this forum - if you can get a hold of Changuito's "Evolution of the Tumbadoras". There's a lot of really useful stuff in there, especially in regards to his Cuban rudiments for the congas (for me it provided a solid years study to develop)

I'm sure there are many other great resources too e.g. Tomas Cruz DVDs.

regards
Pavlo

[korman]

Regarding Debbie's original post - I too can relate to those feelings. At first I was nervous even in a private lesson one on one with my teacher!

I think you should definitely play with friends! Just play what you know well, and time from time put in some of the latest stuff you've been learning. If you make a mistake, smile and look around - maybe noone even noticed your mistake. When you're comfortable playing with friends, go to a drum circle in if there's any in your area. That will help you get used to playing with and for other people you don't know. There's usually very informal atmosphere, so it's easier than a gig.

I am a total beginner in latin percussion, and would not play it in a real gig yet, but I began with djembe a few years ago, and now I almost have no anxiety before playing.

It seems to me that different people tackle this thing in different ways. Some guys just do it again, again and again until they win the fight with the fear, some only go to lessons and rehearse for long time until they think they're "ready". Some people have mental techniques for soothing that anxiety rather than overcoming it. Some just shoot 50g vodka:) Whatever that works! but neither of these methods is perfect, it's going to take time anyway.

And it's best if you have the feeling that band supports you. Congadelica, how can you feel anxious, if you're part of that big steamroller that a brasilian bloco is? The audience is just taken away with that tsunami of sound! I play tamborim for about 6 months, and I never feel anxious with our batucada group ...

[Diceman]

Also, a little advice from the jazz sector-if you make a mistake...play it again even louder as though you meant it!!

[Congadelica]

Congadelica, how can you feel anxious, if you're part of that big steamroller that a brasilian bloco is? The audience is just taken away with that tsunami of sound! I play tamborim for about 6 months, and I never feel anxious with our batucada group ...

It will be first time in front of large gathering of people . I know its not the same as playing Congas in a band , I supose it will help me for futur , but I am a little nervous but not so i am making a mess of my pants :p

Debbie it may help if you did try to join a big ass brazilian bloco band too . Its great fun bangin away , but i have got a few solo timba groove to play saturday but they is easy .

one more practice .

[CongaTick]

debbie, regarding lessons formal rhyhtms,patterns, rudiments, etc. Pavlo is dead on right! the more tools at your command.... The biggest problem for us is lack of patience. We want it now, or at the very least by tomorrow. Go to a pattern description and notation. Any will do. Perhaps one which you've tried but failed to master. Go back to it. SLOWLY work the notation and the hand strokes. (If you don't do it slowly to start, it will frustrate you.) Take as many days as you need so that it becomes comfortable enough for you to integrate it into your "armory"

[Raymond]

Debbie,

What you are going through is something most of all go through. And although some of us have played for quite awhile is happens ocassionally to some when we play with somebody we admire, etc, etc.

Like you mentioned, CONFIDENCE......(We have talked about this in some posts that we have discussed the "psychological effects of playing). Very important is that when you play with somebody and/or in public you feel you are up to the tasks. (Believe me, Vodka will help with some but eventually it will not work).

You do not have to be "top" in everything to play along with other people or with public. If you have the confidence that you will be able to do the parts you are supposed to, you should not have problems. Very important because the human mind works that if you accomplish "little things" your confidence will build up and prepare you to be ready for other challenges.

Regarding the point before....step in only in situations and/or gigs you feel you will be able to perform. Be careful with other percussionists that tend to kill people's mind if you do not play like they want...You have to recognize when to play and with who to play.... Nevertheless, step in ocassionally in gatherings or gigs you have to be able to when you could play or if you should play so it will not affect your mind...

Relax, breath, breath, breath....If you are not relaxed when you play in situations that you could have a little pressure, ie, playing with great musicians or the ones that critize others, you will not perform even things you could do...

Watch others and see what they do and prepare yourself to step in or volunteer to play...Take challenges once in a while and play in situations that you might not have all the confidence but if you do well your confidence will increase and will motivate you to continue to improve...

Playing in a band or group what you have to do to not feel nervous is do what actors are told.....There is a "fourth wall" when you play on stage and is the public.....Forget about them and play without even noticing that fourth wall...Again, confidence here too applies...If you feel you could do something you will do it well, if not...you have to go to the drawing board and come back when you feel confident...Playing in "uncomfortable" situations will not help you at all...

Is not easy but is achievable...Is a mind game.....

My five cents here! I hope this helps!

Saludos!

[trickyricky]

Debbie-another thing
In Giovanni Hidalgo's dvd "Traveling Through Time", he does some unbelievable stuff...AND he says/demonstrates that all he is doing is applying the rudiments in various forms.

I wish I had a teacher like JC or one of these other folks that would have had me practice the rudiments. I am working on them now, and they are already helping.

Peace,
rick

[debbie]

hi guys

thank you all so much for taking the time to reply with such detail to my question, lots of food for thought! nice to know there is this supportive network here, i intend to make more use of it!

congadelica _ i am in my local town batucada group, i play the surdo, we just beginning but we have lots of fun and is defintly helping with my confidence, good luck on saturday!

something else, what is meant by rudiments? is this like warm up excercises? also, what are marchas??

thanks once again!

[Congadelica]

Buy the DVD Tomasito Cruz all explained and easy to follow the DVD . I recomend it . specially for someone lookin to broaden you arsenal