Quick question on pattern

[TONE74]

I had this question on my mind for a long time and wanted to clear it up. On the Tomas Cruz Vol 2, the 3rd 6/8 pattern ( dvd chpt. 9-10) is described as being loosely related to palo. On You Tube Rudy Quesada posted the same pattern and it was described as Chachalokafun the only difference is that Viscaino slaps on the second cycle instead of the open tone that Tomas does, both use a bass tone on the one. I've been playing this pattern for a while and even adding my own thing to it but don't know what to call it. My question is what is this pattern, something related to Palo or Chachalocafun ?

here is the link to Viscaino's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QoH7zxorM

[bongosnotbombs]

Isn't Chachlocafun a bata pattern? So what Rudy is doing is just an adaption really isn't it?
I thought palo is from Congo/Bantu and bata drums and pattern's from Yoruba?

[davidpenalosa]

I think it’s important to keep in mind that band adaptations of folkloric rhythms such as this one often only loosely resemble the actual rhythms they are supposedly based upon. The 6/8 marcha on pg. 27 has open tones on the main beats and bombo. A lot of rhythms share this melody, including palo and chachalokuafun. It’s true that palo is Cuban-Congolese and chachalokuafun is Cuban-Yoruba (Lukumi). Chachalokuafun is the bata adaptation of bembe.
-David

[Thomas Altmann]

Chachalokuafun is the bata adaptation of bembe. -David

David,

I cannot pass over this statement without asking you for the respective form (score) of Bembe that Chachalokpafun would be based upon. I understand that Chachalokpafun is the bata formate for most (if not all) Bembe songs, particularly in combination, or alternatively, with Nyongo.

You are certainly correct in finding that the merely rhythmic features of Chachalokpafun are common with a whole number of Afro-Caribbean rhythms. However, the rhythmic melody of Chachalokpafun has more similarities with a very familiar form of Palo than with any Bembe that I know, at least. I'm sure you know more Bembe styles than I; hence my careful inquiry.

Thomas

[TONE74]

So can I assume that both sources correct ? and if so is the difference in slap vs. open tone what sets them apart or is there anything else such as subtle differences in the way they are played ? I'm probably over analyzing this whole thing but I just want to get to the bottom of it. Thanks for the replies. Peace

[davidpenalosa]

Hi Christian,
When I said that chachalokuafun is the bata adaptation of bembe I was not referring to a literal adaptation of the melody from one drum ensemble to another, but of one system (bata) adopting another system (bembe) in a general sense. Chachalokuafun and nyongo accompany the bembe dances and songs when those songs and dances are accompanied by the bata. Perhaps my use of “adaptation” is not the best choice or words.

We see the same sort of thing with the bata “adaptation” of iyesa. There are certain basics shared by both the actual 4/4 iyesa rhythm and the bata “iyesa”, but it is not a literal adaptation of the drum melody. The same is true for the bata “Arara” and I think, the bata “Olokun” (although I can’t remember where I could have heard the actual Olokun drumming).

You probably know more about the various bembe ensembles than I do. I’m mostly familiar with arrangements played on congas. Here in North America, I have heard and seen an arrangement of bembe where both bombos are played on a mid conga, like palo, but I don’t know where that arrangement comes from.

Chachalokuafun at its most basic is three-over-two, which is the basic framework for so many 6/8 Cuban rhythms. But yeah, palo probably has the closest melody to chachalokuafun, even closer than that arrangement of bembe I mentioned.
-David

[davidpenalosa]

Hi Tone,
I would call it the conga adaptation of palo, or chacha or whatever the person who created it calls it. You can on your own, play the composite drum melody of a folkloric ensemble, but I don't think these guys are that interested in playing exact replicas. I think they extract certain elements that interest them. So, if so someone calls an original rhythm they created "palo", it may be only loosely based on the actual folkloric rhythm.
-Davdi