Practicing, Callouses, and Dangers?

[Firebrand]

Guys,

I've been playing latin percussion for more than 15 years now, and yet, I don't have the hard core callouses of street congueros. I'm not a dedicated conguero...more of a multi-percussionist that plays congas and bongos as part of the general instruments I play.

My question:

Are callouses indispensable to get the rock hard sounds that you hear seasoned congueros get? I can get a very good closed slap, open slap, and open crack sound with my knowledge of conga technique...but...even with my good skill, I still can't seem to get the strong hits that some "lesser techniqued" congueros seem to get. I wonder if the difference is purely the development of harder hands/callouses?

If callouses are so important, how can one go about building them faster? Is it just hitting the congas an hour a day...or are there ways to artificially develop callouses? Any tricks of the trade, guys?

Finally, anyone heard of a rumored side-effect to practicing too much...I read on a Myspace profile that practicing too much conga can cause blood in urination and other complications of intestines. I know it sounds weird...but I read it on Myspace. Any thoughts on that?

Here's the article - Article on Dangers of Practicing



Edited By Firebrand on 1187742416

[Sakuntu]

Alex Acuna is a great conguero (in my opinion) and his hands are not callousessed. (sp?? ??? ) This is a tough questions...is one type of skin better than the other for sounds? I think as long as your technique, volume and feel are right, it shouldn't matter if your hand is soft as a baby's backside or calloussed like an old mans foot.

On the flip side: my conga teacher used to practice on a cinder block to build up callouses so he could be louder when playing. When playing traditional afro latin music volume is a factor being that thre Conga is one of the main rhythm instruments.

[Whopbamboom]

For a while there I was practicing an hour a day on average... never did build up callouses over and above what were already on my hands from doing manual labor here and there. Sounds like you might have to go more than an hour a day to see the callouses start to build thick. Or maybe it has to happen over a few years and not a couple months, at the rate of an hour a day's worth of practice. I don't know.

I think I might try the cinder block thing, though!

[Firebrand]

thanks for these tips...

Keep it going, I'd like to hear more opinions from others on the board. This is often a question of new players looking to develop their sound.

Giovanni hidalgo has some of the most "crackling" highs and slaps in the business, and his hands are heavily calloused.

[jorge]

I don't think the callouses add much to your sound that you can't get by better technique. The downsides of having large callouses, besides increased pain, include splitting skin and potential for infections. Purposely hitting concrete to create bigger calluses does not make sense to me. Your time would be better spent perfecting your technique by listening carefully as you hit the drum with each hand, striving for the best sounding slaps, tones, and muffs. As you get older and some of your colleagues develop hand problems, you will learn to appreciate more the importance of your technique over brute strength.

The rumor about blood in the urine is medically correct. When you play hard for many hours at a time (usually 6 or 8 or more), you may notice red, orange, or brownish urine. This is caused by hemoglobin filtering through your kidneys into the urine. Every time you hit a drum hard, a few tiny red blood cells get broken and the hemoglobin inside spills out into the blood plasma. Normally, this hemoglobin just gets recycled, but if there is too much, some of it filters through the kidneys and gets into the urine. The same thing happens to soldiers who march for days at a time, and is called "march hemoglobinuria". In their case, the red blood cells in the capillaries under the bones in their feet get broken and the same process occurs.

This is not uncommon among bata drummers and others who play all day religious ceremonies. It has happened to me a couple of times after really long hard rumbas. The first time it happened, before I had heard anything about it, I got really worried, but it just went away the next day.

Since free hemoglobin in the plasma can be toxic to the kidneys, it could in theory cause kidney damage. I know personally of one serious conga / bata drummer with chronic renal failure, plus the person who wrote the article you referenced above. That is the first case I have heard of of acute renal failure directly related to hand drumming. Two cases don't prove the connection, but they do suggest it. Has anyone else heard of serious conga, bata, or djembe players who have developed renal failure?

If it happens to you once, don't worry about it. If it keeps happening, I would suggest you cut back on your playing time, or play softer, or put a thinner skin on your quinto.



Edited By jorge on 1187753580

[vinnieL]

I work in the medical field in an ER and can tell you for sure that drumming while seated can have several effects. I don't have info as to whether or not an individuals renal failure is due to drumming but seated on the stool can cause serious prostate problems as well as impotency problems,urinary retention etc. I would advise against playing seated for that long a time. Some of the newer thrones have grooves down the middle to relieve pressure off the prostate. I personally feel that (contrary to what is popular) a firmer throne with prostate groove is the safest bet but maybe not the most comfortable. So guys yes there could be serious issues i the future so choose your thrones wisely that cajon may not be the best. The drumming world should take notice that road bike seats (tour de france type bikes) are often hollow in the middle I mean completely open to keep the pressure off.



Edited By vinnieL on 1187787622

[Whopbamboom]

Some things I haven't given much thought to. Keep it coming!

[vinnieL]

In regards to the original post here I recently heard about a you boy he's like 10 years old and he practiced on a cinder block and he is a prodigy on conga. The problem comes later on in life. As a conga player you will put a tremendous anount of stress on the bones and ligaments of the hand. Playing conga will be millions of repetitions over the course of your playing into old age. Don't shorten that time by ruining your hands and also affecting the quality of everyday life down the road. Just think carpal tunnel syndrome! And people get that just typing! (secretaries) don't forget arthritis and disfiguration. Do a google search for arthritic hands or something to see images.

[OLSONGO]

Look back at old posts.... I put in my 2 cents on hand technique, Is more internal than external :;): \

Paz Olsongo

[109-1176549166]

The rumor about blood in the urine is medically correct. When you play hard for many hours at a time (usually 6 or 8 or more), you may notice red, orange, or brownish urine. This is caused by hemoglobin filtering through your kidneys into the urine. Every time you hit a drum hard, a few tiny red blood cells get broken and the hemoglobin inside spills out into the blood plasma. Normally, this hemoglobin just gets recycled, but if there is too much, some of it filters through the kidneys and gets into the urine...

This is not uncommon among bata drummers and others who play all day religious ceremonies. It has happened to me a couple of times after really long hard rumbas. The first time it happened, before I had heard anything about it, I got really worried, but it just went away the next day.

Since free hemoglobin in the plasma can be toxic to the kidneys, it could in theory cause kidney damage. I know personally of one serious conga / bata drummer with chronic renal failure, plus the person who wrote the article you referenced above. That is the first case I have heard of of acute renal failure directly related to hand drumming. Two cases don't prove the connection, but they do suggest it. Has anyone else heard of serious conga, bata, or djembe players who have developed renal failure?

If it happens to you once, don't worry about it. If it keeps happening, I would suggest you cut back on your playing time, or play softer, or put a thinner skin on your quinto.

jorge,

Whew! Now, I feel kinda relieved!

Last Saturday, I attended a jazz band practice session and played congas for about 4 hours--from afternoon till evening. The following morning, after I got up from bed and went to the bathroom to take a leak, I noticed dried blood on the front of my underwear. It got me a little concerned. I began to entertain thoughts of possible prostate cancer and seeing an Internist ASAP. I didn't mention it to my wife 'cause I didn't want to add to her concerns. (She still doesn't know.)

Firebrand's mention of urine blood caused by conga playing and your explanation thereof make sense to me. Nevertheless, I'm still having that doctor's checkup. :;):



Edited By mjtuazon on 1187833705

[JohnnyConga]

well u can use me for a physical example,and i have been playing the drum for 43years now, just turned 59.....since i have started a program of glucosamine and chondroitin all my aches and stiffnes have gone away and my right arm which was getting "conga elbow" has restored to normal. I do not have any cartiledge left in my hands, so if u see an X ray of my hands their is nothing between my joints, but it doesn t hurt or bother me since my new program, even my "bone spur" in my left shoulder doesnt bother me anymore and I havent pissed blood in over 30 years,and i still play hard .....as far as i know my kidneys and I know my liver is cool...any questions?...."JC" Johnny Conga....

[jorge]

Hi,
Manny, I would agree with your keeping your doctor's appointment, just to make sure it is not something else causing the blood stains.

JC, I am really glad to hear you are doing well after 43 years of playing. We all need to learn from guys like you, who keep going strong after playing for many years. Although each of us may respond differently to the rigors of playing for many years, you - los mayores - are like our windows into the future. Keep on taking the glucosamine, it has been shown in several randomized clinical trials to help reduce cartilage loss in overused joints, and may even help regenerate new cartilage. Ache y sigue pa'lante!

Jorge



Edited By jorge on 1187838684

[109-1176549166]

Jorge,

Thanks so much for your concern! Will do. The good news is that it hasn't recurred, yet.

BTW, I just noticed that you live in Teaneck, NJ. My sister and her family live there, too--on Somerset Rd. My mom and late father used to live there, too. I'm just curious how far or close that is from where you live.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1187899757

[bongo]

When I was younger and playing for many hours every day, I had heavy callous and occasional bouts of blood in the urine.

The callous actually became a problem because they needed to be shaved down, otherwise the corn like growth was like a little hard rock at my knuckle. My slaps in those days were not as good as today when I have softer hands but better technique.

I have shook the hands of Olantunji and Giovanni and neither had a lot of callous. Olantunji's hands actually were quite soft, but boy did he get nice tone from his drums.

As far as the blood goes, I can still get it if I play hard for over 5 or 6 hours, which only happens infrequently, and I'm usually dehydrated too. It turns my urine to 'tomato juice', I've never had like actual blood staining my shorts. It get into the urine by way of the kidney filtering out the dead blood cells, so it should be associated with pee and not like bleeding out of your privates. Mjtuazon, maybe you blew a gasket?



Edited By bongo on 1187920655

[windhorse]

I've also noticed that the guys with cleaner sounding slaps have softer hands.
Sandy P, and everyone I know that's amazing have soft hands.

I've got a good friend who taught me much of what I know about drumming who is a good drummer, but has big caloused hands. He always slightly overdrove the drum a bit and everything was just a bit muddy if you compared it to someone with superior sound and technique. I never pointed it out to him out of respect. I mean everyone who's serious does their best and we've all got different body types anyway. Some guys are just Neanderthals and they're just going to be huge and play like an Ape man. It's all good..

I guess my point is that one shouldn't think that they will sound better if they are hitting the drum hard and experiencing pain or causing their hands to form callouses as if that will make them better.



Edited By windhorse on 1187956350