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Posted:
Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:06 pmby Tone
Hello everybody,
may I request the benefit of the masters infinite knowledge about rolls.
I have a few specific questions but I am sure you might have some angles I didn't think about.
What is the best way to achieve an open tone roll on a single drum. Straight doubles? I have seen Giovanni do a sort of rolling mano secreta. How do you get the drum to sing so well with that technique?
Also on two or three drums what are the different techniques to have a seamless roll moving across the congas. In twos, fours, six, eights stroke patterns? You get the drift...
Thank youmy friends.
Tone
Posted:
Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:22 amby JohnnyConga
First thing is to forget about Giovanni, unless you have the same hands he has... 
second a single stroke roll is achieved, by RLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRL slowly and then building for speed. Trying to get a "retort" or bounce from your hands as this is being done. Third..get ready to do this for hours and days on end, untill you achieve your goal of 64th buzz note rolls that Giovanni can do...if it can be achieved....and practice practice practice...it's endless ...."JC" Johnny Conga....
Posted:
Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:11 pmby zaragemca
Saludos to brother JC,I do agree with his information,adding my two cents, I could say that there are two set of ligaments in the arms/wrists, one set is for contractions,and the other set is for extensions,these are the ligaments which need to be conditionned for flexibility,and after that, the exercises for the coordination of the movement and speed.Dr. Zaragemca
Edited By zaragemca on 1141420474
Posted:
Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:29 amby pidoca
HI Zacarema, if you dont mind me correcting you . please do not take offence.
you are correct in your ideas, but;
what you are refering to is the muscles - the extensors and the flexors. these are located in the forearm. Ligaments are ment to have some elasticity, but do not strech, nor should they be streched beyond their normal range of movement. Muscles should be streched to aid in healing, etc...
the extensors and the flexors go across 2 joints, the wrist and the elbow. most of them just flex and extend the wrist, with a ffew exceptions that also aid the bicep in flexion at the elbow joint.
PIDOCApidoca's website
Posted:
Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:23 pmby yoni
Hey Tone, hey all,
The "heel-toe" roll I've also heard referred to as "the fish" at one time or another... To get it to "sing" as in an open roll, you let the hands bounce more into two distinct strokes, or tones, with each hand. You can start with the heel-toe "fish" roll then pull hands toward you and edge of drum so that just fingers and the part of the palm just below them are bouncing, as in a normal open tone. The two "flams" that each hand does should eventually meld into a smooth open double roll.
Of course, like everyone else said, it takes LOTS of practice. Start slow, slowly gain speed til it messes up, then start again. That's one way. Speeding up and slowing down the rolls also seems to help. Play strong, clear strokes, but relaxed.
My two strokes.
Hope this helps,
Yoni
Posted:
Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:39 amby Diceman
Yoni,
Great way of describing it, I discovered it by accident, and have trying to work out how I was doing it. Thanks for your insight.
Tone,
I'll show you.
Diceman
Posted:
Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:50 pmby yoni
You're most welcome, Diceman. I love those double rolls, all kinds of rolls, fish rolls, egg rolls, jelly rolls, too!
Posted:
Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:46 pmby zaragemca
Even when the muscles are doing extensive jobs of pulling,I'm talking about these specials set of ligaments which are place over and under the wrist.Dr. Zaragemca
Edited By zaragemca on 1141843469
Posted:
Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:00 amby JohnnyConga
I refer to it as the "two hand shuffle" HH TT-RLRL(h-HEEL-t-TIP)..."JC" JOHNNY CONGA..
Posted:
Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:46 pmby Tone
Thanks for all that guys.
How about changing drums a in a roll???
I have been doing stuff like
quintoRLRLcongaRLRRtumbaLRLL etc...
or in triplets
QRLRLRLCRRLLRRTLLRRLL etccc..
Are there any other or better ways?
Posted:
Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:35 pmby yoni
Hey Diceman, don't remember just when and where I heard the heel-toe roll called the "fish", but remember hearing that word here & there. Maybe comes from the "fish-like" undulating movement of the hands in that roll. I heard it and the more open double hand roll called the "flat roll", by an elder Calypso/Jazz great known as "Woodley" from Trinidad... apparently this technique was played by some long before Giovanni and others...
Tone, whatever drum you are rolling on, just continue it on another drum, leading with the hand closer to it. You can try starting with a cross-over, too; I guess that's tougher to get down smooth.
Hope this helps!
Yoni
Posted:
Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:13 pmby windhorse
Tone wrote:quintoRLRLcongaRLRRtumbaLRLL etc...
or in triplets
QRLRLRLCRRLLRRTLLRRLL etccc..
Are there any other or better ways?
A nice simple one a friend has been showing me is a slap with the left hand on the quinto, then a tone one note away on the lower drum with the right, followed by left hand tone - right hand tone - left hand slap on the quinto.
It makes for a nice phrase anywhere in a quinto solo, and you hear it all the time in Munequitos recordings.
I'm sure there are millions of variations that are similar are can be derived from this one.
Posted:
Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:38 amby zaragemca
Saludos,...to Yoni, the heel-toes of course was developed long time ago, since the 30's was already use for congueros as a fill in,or for riffs,(in the Carnivals and Rumba setting), it was later taken to the Conjuntos,and to highter stages by Tata-Guines in the mid and late 60's...Dr. Zaragemca
Edited By zaragemca on 1141954765
Posted:
Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:20 amby yoni
Thanks for that info, Dr. Zaragemca!