Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

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Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby flaco999 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:40 pm

I've been working the Ijesa rythem off the Rejino cd, and it led me to want to learn more about ijesa drums and rythems in general.
Anyway , I read that like the bata, ijesa drums are consecrated and are fundamento. There are only 3 rythems to accompany all the songs that are generic and are called Ogun,Ochun and a closing rythem they use in the Matanzas region.
Here's my question if anyone knows. What is the rythem being played on the Rejino cd? , it seems that this version is the common version of ijesa plyed on conga drums nowadays. My second question is , does anyone know the other two rythems?
I wouldn't mind paying for them either , however I will post them after the purchase LOL.
Just kidding, if anyone has anything to share about Ijesa in general , please do.
A cat I'm playing with has a set of Ijesa drums for his Ochun, and they are bad!!! They are more like dunduns than conga's , and I'm thinking about getting some dunduns to play Ijesa with instead of congas. The sound is so much more authentic.

Thanks
Flaco
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby bongosnotbombs » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:56 pm

Yo Flaco,
I posted this Iyesa a while back..

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4206&hilit=sandy+perez

It sounds different from the Regino version I just listened to, I can't say for sure which version it is.
There was some discussion in that thread on the Iyesa, some good input from D. Penalosa and others,
the sheet posted there has been updated and is a current version.
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby taikonoatama » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:17 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by taikonoatama on Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby taikonoatama » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:40 pm

bongosnotbombs wrote:Yo Flaco,
I posted this Iyesa a while back..

http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/viewt ... andy+perez

It sounds different from the Regino version I just listened to, I can't say for sure which version it is.
There was some discussion in that thread on the Iyesa, some good input from D. Penalosa and others,
the sheet posted there has been updated and is a current version.


Oops. While I was writing my response Geordie snuck in and replied before me. We're in agreement on the transcription here, though, so ours basically line up. I'm not sure that the 6/8 version (above) has been posted, though.

James
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby bongosnotbombs » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:49 pm

Oh yeah, I forgot about that 6/8 version, that has the cool part where you play the
6/8 bell in the right hand a clave in the left for the cachimbo.

The 6/8 Iyesa can also be played with sticks.
Last edited by bongosnotbombs on Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby flaco999 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:00 am

Wow guy's !!!!
Thanks for the info. I love Sandy's sticking patterns , they have really opened up my playing.
When I get out west I'm buying you guy's a drink , and probably some lessons too. LOL

I have never heard ijesa being played in 6/8 ( recordings or otherwise ) I can't wait to try it !!!
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby flaco999 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:31 pm

Hey James & B&B ,
A question????
For the 6/8 yesa stuff , do you guy's sing 6/8 songs or do you transpose yesa songs to 6/8 .

For instance , you can play songs like babafururu to igbado/rumba obatala , or tere mina to chachalegbafun ,or transpose them to 6/8, and play them to bembe or guiro.
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby bongosnotbombs » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:16 pm

I can't say about the songs, I'm not really a singer, just coro's for rumba.
We usually don't get songs with the rhythms either. Sometimes, if someone
asks, we'll get some verses. So I can't really answer your questions here.
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby davidpenalosa » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:04 pm

flaco999 wrote: do you guy's sing 6/8 songs or do you transpose yesa songs to 6/8 .


Hi Flako,
iyesa has its own specific set of songs. I've only heard two 12/8 iyesa songs and they are accompanied by the 12/8 iyesa rhythm. The rest of the many iyesa songs are in 4/4 and are accompanied by the 4/4 iyesa rhythm. When the 4/4 iyesa songs are sung with bata, a bata adaptation of 4/4 iyesa is used to accompany the songs. I've never heard the 12/8 iyesa songs accompanied by bata drums.
-David
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby windhorse » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:02 am

Hi David,
Are the two songs you've heard to the 12/8 Iyesa, Ochun songs? I'd like to know what they are...
I love this, I'm training my new computer as I type, Just in the past few minutes I've added about 7 words to the dictionary. :)
Thanks,
Dave
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby davidpenalosa » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:33 am

Hi Dave,
The 12/8 Ogun song is on the Grupo AfroCuba iyesa from "Raices" and "Ogun" from "Musica Iyesa; Antolgia de la musica afrocubana" (10 CD box set). I can hear the 12/8 Ochun song in my head, but I can't remember if it's on a CD or not. It may be on an old cassette tape from a live recording. Maybe it will come to me later.
-David
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby Thomas Altmann » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:09 pm

Re: Antologia de la música afrocubana / Iyesá

The first song (2nd track) for Elegua is in 6/8. I had to check it back, too.

Thomas
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby windhorse » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:27 pm

Ah!! I have Raices.. So, it's the first song only a few seconds long, Okuo Maile, Maile.. Maile.... Then, it quickly breaks into the next song at 4/4 right?
I had noticed that before and wondered about the shift in the song, but never put it together! Cool!!
I don't have that other CD though. Thanks!
Dave
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby flaco999 » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:36 pm

Hey David,
Wow , I have never heard any yesa in 12/8 , and it seems there is not a lot of material out there to draw from.
So here's my dilema..... I love the rythem and it's new fresh and exciting, and as a jazz musician I want to just do it with 6/8 cantos used in bembe. As a person who respects the folkore and religion I wonder if this is ok to do in a jazz or religious setting since I play in both?
I know I'm gonna get some "master" drummer telling me to not play it that way for the shear reason that he's not hip to the rythem and is unwilling to open his mind to it anyway.
What do you think?
Ihave to say that James and B&B are really lucky to studying with Sandy. It's been a long time since I've seen such new and exciting ways to play folkloric stuff.People around here play the same shit all the time and don't like it when you put your mark on the stuff.I really struggle with that when playing the religious stuff.
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Re: Ijesa 3 rythems Ogun/Ochun/Closing

Postby bongosnotbombs » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:57 pm

We has a thread a while back started by Thomas Altmann that touches on some of the points
you mention, concerning bata and secular music.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4079&hilit=bata+secular

It sounds like players here might be a little more flexible. I used to take class with Carlos Aldama,
and his students have rumba / jam session by the water here in SF after class, and I still go there
and play even though I learn from Sandy now, and they ask me what we are doing in Sandy's group, like what we
are doing for the tres dos in guaguanco and things like that, caja to bembe with sticks.
Carlos is from Havana and Sandy from Matanzas and Carlos is much older as well.

Usually I don't play Sandy's stuff because not everyone knows it. But we mix it all up there, if we
playing rumba columbia and someone wants to sing orisha, it's all good. We know it's not "orthodox" or
wahtever, but I don't see it being disrespectful at all.
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