I guess the main issue is with the widely spread claim that cuban rumba has influences from African and Spanish
music. The question I have never seen answered is which Spanish music? I had always kind of assumed it was flamenco,
because that comes to my mind when I think of Spanish music. If it is flamenco, then the gypsy influence, whose origins are in
India, would potentially be present as well? Potentially best demonstrated in the diana of a rumba song.
That sounds like an interesting book you are reading, is it "Gypsies and Flamenco by Bernard Leblon and Sinéad Ní Shuinéar"? I may have to check it out.
I know only very little about flamenco, but I think it is generally considered to be the music of Spanish gypsies, and not gypsies in general nor the Spanish in general, is that correct?
So while rumba may indeed have influences from flamenco, which may have influences from the gypsies' roots in India, I think it would be a bit of a stretch to say rumba has influence from Indian music. For me that would be kind of leaping a generation and only serve to confuse rather than clarify the issue.
Other Spanish influences are, as you mentioned, the use of the décima (I guess you have seen Phil Pasmanick's great article), and of course the rather obvious but not insignificant fact that rumbas are sung almost entirely in Spanish. Spanish-language songs from other genres frequently turn up in rumba, especially coplas (from Spain) boleros (from Cuba and Mexico) and rancheras and corridos (from Mexico).
Some of the other spanish influences are detailed in the documentary "La Rumba" by Oscar Valdes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDkIE6PG ... re=related
These include:
The word "rumba" itself - from "mujeres del rumbo" or "Women of the street" ie., prostitutes ( I personally have my doubts about that one.)
The typical "rumbera" costume
The use of the handkerchief while dancing
On one hand, I believe the main function of the diana in both styles (does that section in flamenco have a name, by the way?)
is to signal the beginning of a song and also to establish the key and mode in what are essentially a cappella musics. (I believe the guitar was added to or gained prominence in flamenco only later in its development.) So to me it is not *inconceivable* that they developed independently.
But on the other hand, in another part of the Valdés documentary, the great rumba singer Saldiguera declares unequivocally that the diana comes from flamenco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SRYG3KQzD4
and who is anyone to argue with him??
And given all the opportunities, such as the prolonged presence in Havana of "los negros curros" - the flamboyant and stylish free blacks from Andalucia who settled and flourished around El Manglar in Jesus María (later one of the most famous rumbero barrios) for about 300 years until mysteriously fading out by the 1840's; later the many Spanish working and artisan-class immigrants (many from Andalucia) to Cuba beginning in the 1880's; and the acknowledged influence of Cuban music on Flamenco, with the so-called "cantes de ida y vuelta" ("Songs of going and coming back" ie, across the Atlantic), many of which are songs from Cuba (and Argentina, I believe), the connection seems more than plausible.
Which reminds me, some things that drive me crazy about spanish music and rumba is when people don't realize that "rumba flamenca" came from "rumba cubana" and not the other way around, and that the use of the cajon in rumba did not come from flamenco. Flamenco only picked up the cajon in the 1970's when Paco de Lucia heard it while on tour in Peru and incorporated it in his music. (A lamentable development in my opinion. For me the cajon doesn't add anything new in flamenco, merely (over)emphasizes elements that are already present.) But I digress.
bongosnotbombs wrote:So could rumba contain influences from Africa, Spain, the Moorish Empire and India?
bongosnotbombs wrote:What seems really ironic to me is that modern flamenco is being strongly influenced by cuban music and rumba,
when at first it was the other way around.
What seems really ironic to me is that modern flamenco is being strongly influenced by cuban music and rumba,
when at first it was the other way around.
guarachon63 wrote:Which reminds me, some things that drive me crazy about spanish music and rumba is when people don't realize that "rumba flamenca" came from "rumba cubana" and not the other way around, and that the use of the cajon in rumba did not come from flamenco.
bongosnotbombs wrote:Since we are on the subject, this is a video of the great Paco de Lucia, on
of the better examples of the fusion between afro-cuban and flamenco IMHO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oyhlad64-s
does anyone know who the bongo player is?
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