suggestion for percussion recording

[solo]

halo! hope all of you are doing great!

next week I have plan to do some recording. I want ask about tips for percussion recording such as mic type, mic positioning, etc. the set up is standart: 3 conga, timbales, bongo and toys. I have once recorded, but I wasnt satisfied with it. so I really appreaciate for some tips to obtain good quality sound from my next recording session. what kind of aspect should I pay attention? what it is?

ok. thanks for ur attention!

[Tonio]

Hola solo!!

The aspect of recording is the situation, which begs to ask- what is the situation?
Is it live - if so what kind of stage outside/inside?
Studio- live to track or overdubs?

Then more importantly what is the instrumentation?
Is it a solo percussionist individual or overdubs?
Is it for a band situation? What genre?

What equipment is available?

T

[solo]

wao! thanks tonio for ur question. I didn't realize those aspects till u mentioned it.

I record in a studio and use track recording.

the instrumentation is:
1. 3 conga (quinto conga tumbadora)
2. timbales, red wood block, cha2 bell, mambo bell, 16 crash cymbal.
3. bongo
4. wind chimes and rain stick
5 shakers, triangle, agogo bells ,tamborine, clave, and afuche

it is a band situation( drum, percussion, nylon guitar, vocal, bass). genre is mix from funk, jazz, brazilian and rock. I play percusion individual. I record it 4 times: first: i will record all conga part, second is bongo, third is timbales and fourth is toys. what do you think about this steps? what should come first?

for the equipment, I dont know yet. I will ask the engineer first, then I let u know. but I think, the equipment are not really good, because this is a low budget studio.

ok. thanks again Tonio for the response.

[Diceman]

Solo,

I suggest you record the eighth or sixteenth note time keeper first for example a shaker or triangle, so the band can lock into it. Then add all the other stuff.
I qualify that by assuming that you are not using a metronome.

suave

[solo]

thanks diceman for the suggestion. I will use metronome, and drum will be the first section that is recorded and then bass, next is percussion, so I will play over them. what do you think?

thanks anyway! gud luck diceman!

[Diceman]

Sounds cool, but remember--'less is more'

Good luck with your project

Suave

[JohnnyConga]

Ok be sure to use the 'click" track to kep u in "sync". . .also stay 6 inches away from the mic's when doing shakers etc. . . .AKG's are one of the best mics to use. . .as well as SM 57;s if they have them. . .usually I come in to record AFTER al the other instruments have been layed down . . . so i will know from my experience and ears as to what will be recorded and how. . .hope that helps. . . Johnny Conga. . . .

[Tonio]

Ok solo,
since you expanded on what instrumentation is involved, it makes things easier.

Being that there will be a trap drummer (drum set) involved, I assume the drummer and possible bass player will track first while having the guitar and vox(vocals) play along for accompaniament. Unless a basic percussion track is the main focus of the rythm section. You may need to talk with the band to see how that will work during pre recording rehearsal. And the band better rehearse before recording. Know the parts and orchestrate the format and breaks, and the overall message the band wants to convey. If the band cannot get these points ready before going in, it may all be moot. It could get down to having arguments if its a "band" idealistic situation. I there is a leader of the band, and calls the shots, you should be sure to at least work out through him to where it needs to go.
That being said, if the band can play to a click track, go ahead and go for that if the recording studio is limited in rooms. The drummer and bass can be in one room, while the gtr vox can be in the control room, to isolate the percussion in another room, If there isn't enough rooms to go whith that scenario, you may all be doing overdubs, which if teh band is not used to doing things that way , can get stagnant and kill the vibe. But if the musicians are competant , it could be pulled off.
If teh studio is smalland you guys are all going to be in 1 or 2 rooms and track "live" as in everyone plays and gets recorded at teh same time, its up to the engineer to figure out the isolation and bleed from other instruments. In this scenario, you will have to track "live" with the most grooving basic track that goes through a whole song i.e. congas, then overdub for aclinary parts i.e. bongos, timbales. Maybe the 2nd overdub can be the spice tracks i.e. shaker, etc.
As ar as mics etc, if the engineer know whats he's doing, you can use all your concentration of giving your best perfomance.
If he has no clue it would depend on what type of mics he has. The obvious choice for congas, bongos and timbales are dynamic mics i.e. Sm57, 58 Sennheiser 421, e604 etc placed rather close.
For overhead timbales (bells and cymbals, plus ambiance) , shakers, toys , bongo bell , claves, agogo etc a condensor mic should be used. Either large diaphram or small diaphram will work. There are many options of condenor mics, so I won't go into what is good. They should be placed farther away to capture more ambience of the room. If the engineer knows what he is doing, he should alleady know this stuff
I could go into mic placement for each instrument, but not knowing the tunes and how it is all going down would be superfluous. I would suggest talking to the engineer while you getting tuned up and moving equipment around. I am sure he will be asking questions, and just try to tell him what each instrument's role is for each take(recording pass). It the engineer is just a friend, well try to use some of the pointers to get you in the ball park.

good luck, and let us know how it goes.

T

[windhorse]

A mic placement generality, when there is no worry about blead between instruments, is the mic is placed the distance from the instrument equal to the resonant body of the instrument. So, the distance is equal to the size of the drum.

Also, here's some really good micing advice that Bart Elliot gave on his percussion list at Drummer Cafe.com:

Mic the Congas from the top, unless you are wanting some sort of special effect by placing a mic underneath. You're not going to get all the nuance strokes and articulate slaps if you mic any other way that from the top. The angle to start with could be the 45 degree angle approach, just like on Toms or Snares.

When placing more than one mic on a Conga set-up, be sure to follow the 3:1 ratio ... that is whatever the distance is from the mic to the conga, all other mics should be at least three times further away. Altering the angle and direction of the mic will help you if you can't follow the 3:1 rule.



Edited By windhorse on 1196022446

[Tonio]

Hola Dave,
That is a good generalized micing technique.
IMHO
However it may be better for situations when you are looking for a more ambient capture and with good isolation and treated room acoustics. It should work in a world class studio. Bleed will be an issue without isolation.
Also, the use of near field mic placement is more appropriate even in isolated pro studios. Depending on the tune, genre etc. The near field is up to the distance of the instruments size as you mention, the far field is obviously farther away.
Unless you have a world class large diaphram(LD) mic, the details will get lost especially in a busy mix. Small diaphram(SD) may work since they have a more accurate preproduction, but they need more gain, however has more self noise vs a LD. A dynamic mic has even more less gain.
Many pro studios use as a industry standard a SM 57, or Senn 421 or other similar mic in the near field. This is to bring in the details e.g. slaps, h/t etc. Getting in close I would say 1' at an angle. That way the slaps are detailed yet you don't loose the lower mids (body). Even then during the mix the low end is rolled off and the detail area is still boosted to a degree.
Another approach in great studios is to use a LD about 2' out (still in the near field) , but then we are talking about a Neumann U87 or AKG 414's , some new mics are getting attentions these days, but I would avoid the Chinese copies.
Most often the cardiod pattern is used, and for LD the outer limits of the pattern doesn not reflect an accurate sound, which can be good or bad. SD are beter in this regard for a more accurate capture. It all depends on what you are trying do.
i.e. for funk,rock a more detailed capture would work since its going to get buried by the trap drummer. For Brazilian, jazz a far field may work better for a more ambient capture, but again it depends on what the needs are.
When you get to the bells, chimes claves etc, the reverant field is best. No way you can use the instrument size for the near/far field cusp as a mic placement. You will be much too close.
i.e. I usually go out about 3' or more for shekere, and bells etc in omni pattern if the room sounds good -without bleed of course.

T

[LatinJazzLover]

try this link:
http://mixguides.com/microphones/product_features/big-beat-audio-704/

[solo]

halo diceman, JC, Tonio, windhorse and latinjazzlover for the infos, I have to reread this post and print it, so I can discuss it with my band and my engineer. percussion is not a common instrument in my country, so we havent so much experience about percussion recording.
so much info to digest, and I really like the article which latinjazzlover gave me. thanks.

thanks also for the humble suggestion from diceman. I'll try those words!

thanks a lot Guys! I will record percussion on this friday. maybe I can give you some pics from my session so you can add more comment about everything. gud luck for all of you!

[tocandorumba]

Thanks to LatinJazzLover for the great link!

[Tonio]

That is a great article.
But IMO Eric , Jim an Tom has been doing their work for decades, do you think anyone can do what they can? Not to mention the knowledge, equipment and world class studio's and resources available to them.

T

[bongosnotbombs]

That is a great article.
But IMO Eric , Jim an Tom has been doing their work for decades, do you think anyone can do what they can? Not to mention the knowledge, equipment and world class studio's and resources available to them.

T

What, you mean not everyone has a couple AKG C12 and Neuman M50's that they can just hang off of trees whenever they feel like it?

The Santana engineer was pretty reassuring, using the sm57's to record congas......now where have I heard that recommendation before?