Help?!...Rhythms for Bossa Nova

[DaBid_Son]

Hola Amigos,

Recently I have had the opportunity to sit in with a guitarist who plays alot of Brasilian Standards. I found my self at a loss, not knowing exactly what to do for a Bossa Nova. I have several books, but none show any rhythms for this. I couldn't find anything in the congaplace congabook either or other web sites. I tried improvising by playing a syncopated tumbao (pardon my notation, its not lining up quite like I want it to, hope its understandable):

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + | 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
high O O S O M O S S M M M
low O O O O
r l r r r l l r r l r r l r l

Then, the guitarist told me to improvise with the bolero patterns. I couldn't quite get it at the time but when I came home I came up with this:

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + | 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
high O O S O M O S S O M M
low O O O O
r l r r r l l r r l r l r r l

I know neither of these are quite what a Bossa Nova should be. Does any one know what to do for this? Any help would be greatly appreciated. ???


Thanks

David

[DaBid_Son]

Well, The notations certainly didn't line up like I expected. :0 I know now what not to do for next time. If they are absolutely not undertstandable please tell me I'll try to post again. Thanks for your help in advance.

Saludos

David

[DaBid_Son]

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + | 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
O O S O M O S S M M M
O O O O
r l r r r l l r r l r r l r l

And

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + | 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
O O S O M O S S O M M
O O O O
r l r r r l l r r l r l r r l

Hope this looks better

[DaBid_Son]

I give up on that lining up business. any one interested I will gladly email a *.doc file with the notation.

once again any help with Bossa Nova Rhythms or resources is greatly appreciated.

Thaks again

David

(I swear I can play better, than I can line up those notations :p )

[michaelangelo]

MR. David.... bosSa nova, and samba it;s all about feel what you need do is listen to a lot of brazilain music.. like JOBIM, Elain REGINAL, GILBERTO GIL, AND SERGIO MENDDEZ just to name a few.. im not sure of how many congas you are playing? but you have to find a way to mimic the surdo drum.
the surdo drum if the foundation of all BRAZLIAN music... Paulo BRAGA the drummer is one of the all time greats in BRAZLIAN CONTEMPORY MUSIC listen, listen , listen so you can develop you own feel..... good luck..

michaelangelo
mucho ache

[michaelangelo]

MR. David.... bosSa nova, and samba it;s all about feel what you need do is listen to a lot of brazilain music.. like JOBIM, Elain REGINAL, GILBERTO GIL, AND SERGIO MENDDEZ just to name a few.. im not sure of how many congas you are playing? but you have to find a way to mimic the surdo drum.
the surdo drum is the foundation of all BRAZLIAN music... Paulo BRAGA the drummer is one of the all time greats in BRAZLIAN CONTEMPORY MUSIC listen, listen , listen so you can develop you own feel..... good luck..

michaelangelo
mucho ache

[Laurent Lamy]

I give up on that lining up business. any one interested I will gladly email a *.doc file with the notation.

once again any help with Bossa Nova Rhythms or resources is greatly appreciated.

Thaks again

David

(I swear I can play better, than I can line up those notations :p )

I am interested by the doc file.
My email:
laurent.lamy@club-internet.fr

[Chelsea]

Hi David,

Here's a pattern for Bossa Nova that my teacher showed me. I learned this in my very first lesson, so you'll have to forgive the simplicity of it Start with your left hand and continue R L R L R L R..

1 2 3 4
S m m S m m O O m m S m m S O O

S = slap
m = muffled tone
O = open tone

This is the single drum version. Play the final two open tones on a low drum to get a two-drum version.

Hope that makes some sort of sense!
Chelsea



Edited By Chelsea on Nov. 28 2002 at 16:02

[Chelsea]

Sorry, I should correct my notation a little. The 1, 2, 3, 4 count should really be:

1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a

I don't think the numbers lined up very well in my previous post, so you might be best to write it out onto a piece of paper.


Chelsea

[DaBid_Son]

Thanks chelsea that rhythm is very helpful. I've been working with it alot the past few days.

Also, Thank you Frank De G. your Excel file is very helpful and very well prepared. Finally I've found something to use Excel for!!!

Michaelangleo your input also is very helpful. I am paying close attn to the surdos now. In fact I have gone back to all my Bossa Nova Tracks to try and listen to this while incorporating chelsea's and frank's pattern with mine.




Thanks all!!!

David

[James McKaskle]

Old post, I know, but I'm on a Brazilian info kick today!

To play bossa nova on congas for, I think having a little history of it's development helps alot, because bossa nova developed independently of congas.

#1. Bossa nova is samba. It's a slow samba, a less rhythmically active samba (in voz e violão style of joão Gilberto and the smooth lounge style of Tom jobim). it began life as something called Samba Canção, pioneered by Dolores Duran, Vinicius de Morães, Jonny Alf, Tom Jobim, and those guys in the lounge bars of Copacabana. Samba Canção was a cannibalization of American Jazz in Brazil, and tended to be of a more meloncholy nature than the upbeat sambas we're all used to.

#2. João Gilberto comes along and (though he began his musical career as a member of one of many acapella jazz groups in Brazil mimicking Frank Sinatra, et al...) went a little nuts; and in his recuperation period when people just got tired of supporting him, as he was a known flake and famous mooch, he went live with his sister for a while and developed a new style of playing and singing samba on guitar which reduced the samba to a (slow) half clave:

X.X.XX..

and incorporated the jazz voicings of those pianists like Johnny Alf and Tom Jobim in the Rio bars. Then the kicker was developing a soft, nasaly singing voice that was almost independent of the guitar's rhythm. Bossa Nova was born.

#3. To play Bossa Nova is to play rhythmically sparse, and like michaelangelo said, playing congas in a bossa nova setting would be to play with the surdo, or you could play half clave. Much of Brazilian music is strangely enough, fairly rhythmically simple in the bateria sections, and with generally very little improvising as it is. Another workable rhythm for Bossa Nova on congas would be straight 8ths: H T S T H T S T, or something to that effect which would mimick a cymbal ride.

#4. Bossa nova is a stylized version of samba and it is very easy to take a bossa nova, speed it up, replace the bossa 1/2 clave with a samba clave, and it's straight samba.

#5. I've led you to believe that bossa nova is a simple stripped down version of Samba, which it is in some ways, but take any recording João Gilberto and listen to the interplay of the guitar and the voice, and you'll see it's really much more sophisticated than all of that. Tom Jobim definately strips it all down, but I don't think he understood it as much as João Gilberto did. Infact, it was common for session guitarsits in the early days to not be able to understand the rhythms and harmonies that Gilberto created. Remember that Jobim was writing Samba Canções and learned Bossa from Gilberto.

#6. As a tumbadora playing a Bossa Nova, to what extent should you relax and to what extent should you swing with the guitar/singer? Bossa Nova isn't limited to Gilberto's style or to Jobim's style, or to Toquinho's style, to anyone, really. It's been given huge room to breath and stretch and develop over time and be more straight samba than bossa, more tropicalia-like, more rock influenced, more jazzy, more modern, more of everything.

#7. But the precepts remain true, I think. Keep it simple, and don't play in a "rumba" state of mind.

[congastu]

Hi James
Wow!! What a fantastic lesson- beautifully felt and written, too!
While we are on this one, I thought Id add a few rhythms I use when playing bossa style grooves.
When playing at a slower tempo, I often play with a cha-cha-cha feel, but somehow put more emphasis on the "and 3" of the tumba so you pick up the sensation of the primera surdo.
At a faster speed, I often use the below rhythm [maybe my own- but who knows?] and play it over three congas [conga on left, quinto, tumba] to really get that surdo feeling, but with the slaps quite light to keep the great fluidity you get in bossa nova. Brackets represent either conga or tumba- if its LH its on the conga.

[O].S[OO]OS[O].[O].S[O].OS
L L RR LR L L L R LR

While we are at it [!!] heres another one a friend devised for up tempo samba grooves over three congas- it works a treat when you really fire those slaps:

[O]S.S[O].SS[O].SS[O]S.S
L R L R LR L RL R L R

Hope you enjoy
peace and love, Stu

[gilbert]

hello
try this link
http://www.congaplace.com/cgi-bin....=13;t=6

i've put an audio sample of how i play the bossa nova hope it's usefull

[James McKaskle]

I like it your bossa ride, congastu. It matches up well with "Garota de Ipanema" Do you play the 1st and 4th beat open tones on the high conga? It goes best with the motion of the bass notes on the guitar.

[congastu]

Hi James
Hope all is well. To be honest, I never thought of that till now. Usually Id play the one on the mid conga and 4 on the tumba to give the bim-bom effect of the surdos. I just tried out your suggestion now and it sounded great- really makes the bass melody loads more subtle!
Ive got a gig with the guitarist Richard Smith tomorrow and he does some bossa style grooves so Ill put it all into practise. By the way, as a guitarist maybe you should check him out [www.rowz.net]- he plays bass rhythm and lead simultaneously; pretty sharp stuff.
Anyway, thanks again
peace and love, Stu
PS where are you based?