Playing hard, and the Culture of Mazacote

[Firebrand]

I wanted to get the guidance of conga masters on this issue.

I've been playing congas for more than a decade, seriously studying the instrument for about 4 to 5 years. I believe that my playing technique is respectfully advanced. I know how to slap with both hands consistently. I can play most Afro-Caribbean rhythms on two or three congas, have played countless Latin gigs, and I think I have a respectable solo technique and good ideas.

So, why the angst?

Well, at a venue I frequent regularly, it seems that whenever I play there, no matter how hard I hit the congas, I can never seem to be able to be heard over the rest of the group (a quintet to sextet, depending on who shows up). I play without mikes in a medium-sized restaurant/table area. The area is rugged, though we tend to use plastic food-plate trays under the congas to minimize the dampening effect of rugs.

Now...I've been afraid to vocalize this concern to other musicians for fear of the inevitable raised eyebrows:

"why do you need a mike? Can't you hit them hard enough? So-and-So can be heard over us. You just don't have the same technique as they do".

It's the dreaded Culture of Mazocote. It's akin to a man being afraid of revealing he has a small penis to other men. It's expected that a conguero should be able to play loudly in any venue...without microphones. To ask for microphones is to ask for a "lifevest"...

Now...when I play on my own at home, it seems like my cracks and slaps on the conga are loud. I admit, they're not as loud as one or two other congueros I know (but they are masters of 30 years of performing), but they're not neophyte weak either.

My questions:

1) How can I approach the other musicians about needing microphones in a way that I won't be ridiculed with the dreaded "you have soft conga technique" response.

2) Given that I practice 1 hour every day, what can I do to raise the overall loudness of my playing technique. This includes things like slaps and high cracks...but also regular open tones, palm tones, baqueteo patterns, etc.

Should I practice with heads tuned low...so that I get used to getting slap sounds out of less-tense heads?



Edited By Firebrand on 1196642409

[bongosnotbombs]

Get louder congas? Fiberglass with synthetic heads? Oak?

[Firebrand]

I have a Patato Fiberglass set, and yes, they are louder, and I prefer using them in unmiked situations.

But there's a part of me that wonders if I'm using the "cheat sheet" by using Fiberglass as opposed to wood.

I've seen guys play wood congas with dead heads who sound louder than me on Remo Fyberskins on patato fiberglass congas.

So a part of me wonders if maybe the issue is my technique.

[Chupacabra]

Hello, I am brand new to the forum. I just registered a minute ago just so I could reply to this post. And here it is:
In my opinion, volume is relative. Maybe they could turn their volume down slightly. Or - maybe they might have felt that the percussion section was taking over and turned up the volume and never brought up the subject. If you can't find a happy medium then I would start shopping around for a nice, discreet mike and a decent sound system that won't over power everything. Even if it isn't used all the time it's still good to have anyway.

[bongosnotbombs]

I don't think it's cheating to use the fiberglass, isn't that part of the reason they were made?
What kind of band are you playing in? I play bongos with a jazz jam frequently and when we get conga players it can be a little hard to hear them too, and they aren't mic'ed either.

I'm not an expert in this, but horns and amped instruments kind of project in a direction, where congas don't really do that, I think that makes it hard to compete, especially with instruments in the same register like maybe a bass and toms and kick drum.

Congas are loud but trumpets and traps are louder.

[buckoh]

Firebrand, I know exactly what you are talking about. You know where you stand with your playing & technique. I've been playing over 30 years and have always had the volume problem. I used to pride myself on how hard I could hit and slap. But you know what? All that will get you is sore hands, split skin, blood in your urine and finally, bursitis. I feel it is disrespectful for amplified musicians to not mike you. Really, even trap drummers are miked to the hilt nowdays. I carry 3 mikes but usually one Beta will work for 3 drums. I've played with some really good musicians, ones that were all far advanced of my skills, and they usually are the most respectful and will let you use a mike. I have a Sure powered mixer that will allow 4 mikes to mix to one channel. Surely, most bands will have at least one open channel. Sometimes one player will even give up a mike so that you can use one. Some of these young up & coming musicians are so insecure (regardless of their musical prowess) that they are afraid to mike you. So, what is their point? "Yeah, we want you to play but not be heard"? Playing music can put you in some strange personal situations but having them challenge your manhood by asking you stress your body by playing too hard is insulting. I've been at the point where I just didn't want to play out because I felt that I was just a novelty and and was not appreciated. Why go out and make a band sound better but not be allowed to feel good about it? It sounds like you are focused and centered on your playing, I have alot of respect for that. If these folks aren't respecting you, find someone else to play with. Its hard to walk away from cats that are great players but it gets better when you find great players that know what you are doing and appreciate it. Good luck, Buck
Oh yea, and to quote Screamin' Jay Hawkins, remember "no matter how small it is, it always fits!"



Edited By buckoh on 1196659851

[caballoballo]

It is not a matter of playing loud, it is a matter of playing with afinque (cadence). Is not a problem to use a mic either. In the band I play, every instrument is amplify and we have monitors for the percussion ,horn section & the singers so we can hear everybody . The worse situation is when you can not hear the other instruments and by playing harder you don't do anything but hurt your hands.



Edited By caballoballo on 1196682446

[windhorse]

If you want us to critique your technique, then give us a clip!

Otherwise get amplification!

Make it happen!

[blango]

Use mics! Whats the big deal. do we ask guitar players to dump the amp?

I would use fiberglass with plastic heads, as a second option.

As far as playing with force, i was taught to work on all technique very very softly, and if you can make sweet tones, slaps etc with no effort, they sing when you put force into them. I really only see use for such forceful playing in a folkloric setting, not combo work for sure.

But if you have to, or want to play so hard, please stretch before and after playing.

Hope that helps,

Tony

[Garvin]

Argh... You really shouldn't feel bad about wanting a mic. It could just be that specific room you are in, but either way if you feel like you need it, then just do it and don't feel bad about it.

Another possible fix might be to try tuning your congas up a little. I used to have to tune up from room to room depending on things like the band, the venue, or if I'm using a mic or not. Just gives a little more high-end presence. Give it a try.

As a percussionist, I find that there really is nothing worse than seeing a band with a conguero that I can't hear. If they give you grief about the mic, then tell the bass player to unplug and that Mingus played without plugging in as well. That ought to put an end to that ridiculous argument.

Good luck!



Edited By Garvin on 1196711000

[Firebrand]

thanks for the advice on this issue.

I will always continue to train to play the hardest I can without hurting myself, but it's time I bring a small sound system with me. I shouldn't have to worry about hurting my hands to make other people happy.

[Thomas Altmann]

Firebrand:

I'd like to add one idea to what has been said so far; the way you described it, you seem to have this kind of problem only in this particular room. So it's more about acoustics.

Perhaps the overtone register from slaps and fibreglass and plastic is not really what you need. Try to achieve a solid punch under your open tone, which is the main sound of the conga drum, anyway. Use hand shaping and stroke acceleration for this ends. Find the proper spot to hit on the drum. But don't try to squeeze more out of the instrument than it can possibly give. Remember, no matter how hard the loudest macho congero in the world hits his tool, there will always be a volume level where everybody has to give in and ask for amplification, period. That's what the stuff is there for.

All the best,

Thomas

[onile]

Mira Papa!
I personally don't go to a gig without my own rig, meaning mics (3 or 4 Sennheisers E604s), 3 or 4 monster XLR cables, my Beringher FX mixer, and my Mackie Powered Monitor Speaker which I mount on a speaker stand directly behind me. Volume, it's in my control, of course it could turn into a pissing contest with the other group members, but there is usually a mutual respect when you show up with your own professional equipment. Usually though, when it's a new group that I've not worked with before, they're all dumbfounded to see a 'conguero' show up with his own PA system!

It's all about being ready for whatever the gig throws at you! And yes, practicing your chops on a daily basis is always recommended! Learning to control your own technique so as to be responsive to the room dynamics (bar, restaurant, theatre stage, hall, etc. etc.) Having the mini PA helps more than you know!

Hermano Firebrand, don't sweat what others may think or say about having your professional stuff together, it will prompt them to lean in the same direction. I've had guys come to my gigs and sit in, afterwards they're asking where I got this, and how I did that. The best part of the evening's gig is when you can feel yourself playing the slightest nuance of a rythm without beating your hands to a pulp!

Suerte Mi Hermano!

Onile!

[caballoballo]

I don't know what is going in the USA. Here in P.R every instrument is amplify,is just the way it is. Is no way you could have a Salsa Band with 11 musicians and some have mics & others not. Is not a matter of who is going to be mic or not. The rhytm section must be heard inside & outside of the stage.



Edited By caballoballo on 1196774831

[CongaTick]

Cheap-ass Samson 3-pack clip-on mics, an overhead mic for bongos, 6 input mixer-- less than $200. After a 4 hour gig I know it's the best investment I've made in a long time. And when it comes to penis size-- remember: Whatever the size, it always fits.