"Presencia" and Slap power

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"Presencia" and Slap power

Postby Firebrand » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:20 pm

Guys,

I'm going to post on something that is dear to me and my own percussive development. I would characterize myself as a "child" of the new generation of congueros....think Giovanni Hidalgo, Paoli Mejias, Richie FLores, etc. Although I've heard enough of the old-school to understand and use their "licks", I prefer the melodic and percussive ideas of 3-4 conga playing styles.

Even with a pretty developed technique (always improving, of course), there is something that I've been told I lack sometimes: PRESENCIA.

Now, my slaps are not weak by any measure...but...in comparison to at least to other musically-less developed (but older and more experienced congueros), it's not as loud.

Daily practice and repetition is not an issue. My hands are on congas a lot more than 95% of the percussionists I work with where I live. But...somehow...someway...I'm not doing the right things to develop rock-solid slaps and machine-like salsa tumbaos. The "presencia" is not there. It's deeply frustrating to practice so much and see this particular aspect of one's technique not improve (my patterns, comfort playing them, and rudimentary pyrotechnics have all improved though). To be told that one's playing lacks "presencia" is like the equivalent of telling a man he's impotent. It's like the other stuff that one knows does not matter!

So, I'm turning to the old school masters on this forum for every single tip, trick, and sleight of hand (if any) that I can focus on for developing rock-solid slaps and driving salsa tumbao marchas. Obviously, I know my Heel-Toe-Slap-Toe-Heel-Toe-Open-Open...I need someone to delve deeper with me.

For an example of my playing, you may view this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuvSFOJg ... annel_page
or this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwymCjEoedA

In case anyone's wondering, I am seeking out help on my end from a percussionist who has the absolutely most stunning slaps I've ever seen, both here or anywhere I've traveled. The only other person whose slaps have impressed me as much is Giovanni Hidalgo himself.
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby JConga » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:42 pm

fIRST WHO? told u you didnt have any "presencia"...and why u listen to that?...i see nothing wrong with your technique...."afinque" OR "mazacote" is what's needed in playing..."time" is the most important for one to have to play...forget about all the rolling and speed...as we ol skool cats say..about the playing today..."all rolls No butter!".....speed is one tiny aspect of playing, but also important..but so is "clarity and definition" in ones playing...ritchie flores as fast as he is has a tendency to "overun" his own playing almost making it sound unintelligable as to what he's doing for the sake of "flash and burn"....the young lions today think that is all there is to playing the drum and it's not, take it from me and my 45 years of professional experience....I would rather hear a solid tumbao because it's about "dance music" and not ones Ego....and "look at me,routine"...improvisation has its place but if u want to play in ANY kind of band you need to hone ur individual skills with diversity... now im talking about latin dance music, not Latin Jazz, that has more freedom involved in it.so that type of playing has its place as well, but u cannot incorporate it into EVERYTHING....LEARN YOUR RHYTHMS!....thats where it's at....and also try to invent knew ones if u can...but that fall within the framework of the music ur playing to..that is MHO....any questions?..."JC" JOHNNY CONGA
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby thomas newton » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:43 pm

Well you may be talking about something too subtle for my beginner ears but it sounds like you are being dragged into a peen waving contest to me.
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby Firebrand » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:20 pm

hmmm...I like your opinion Johnny. It's important to get that feedback.

Maybe it's just my ears lying to me, but somehow I don't get that same "power" that some others get when playing. I second your comment about the mazacote aspect, though. Are there any tips toward efficient practice of these patterns...or just repeat them ad nausem? Maybe I can record my playing, upload it, and then have you guys analyze where I can put more power, where I can move my hands a certain way, etc.

And I agree with you about Richie. Richie's solos bore me, for the most part. I prefer Giovanni Hidalgo and La Mole to him precisely because they're much more musical with the congas, without sacrificing the ability to do fast work.

Thanks for the supportive criticism!
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby Quinto Governor II » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:36 pm

Firebrand, Are you playing regularly with a band? And who exactly have told you these things? Is it follow congueros? Look at it the other way.You may be giving too much credit to what is being said, and discounting what you,re not hearing. Many may have no problem with your playing, or may even love it, but just have not expressed it to you. What is the reaction of the audience to your band? If they are not disappointed I'd say you're just fine. I certainly hope to achieve your level of playing someday, just based on the video you posted. Johnny C said it all, and that's who you really need to here from. I'm not old school as far as drumming experience is concerned but I appreciated the old players and music very much. Love the new guys also. There is a time and place for everything, but there is a concept called "duly proportioned" which I think we all are trying to achieve. As far as " driving salsa tumbao marchas" are concerned maybe practicing to timba could help you in that area. My impression is that the most swinging tumbaos in salsa playing reminds me of the timba feel, and that the left hand is what separates the men from the boys.
Hey! Johnny C, can we define "Latin Jazz"? I believe I may understand what you are saying. Many "Jazz Bands" play cha chas, salsa, and other Cuban forms. Would you be referring to mostly 6/8 tunes and latin arrangements of jazz standards as the non-dance forms?
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby ABAKUA » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:29 am

Hola Rene,

Its a funny thing... Presencia, afinque, firmesa etc...

You have some great chops, speed and very fine technique not to mention great time. Your sounds are all there also. 8)

You do remind me of one of my homeboys here, you two play very much alike. In fact almost identical. He often gets the same thing said to him, about his presence.
I really dig your playing.

Having that solid defining presence in your sound comes with time, and judging by the dedication you are laying into your practise, it will come soon enough.

I am often complimented on my sound and presence etc at gigs, its a wonderful thing, but came after many years of putting in the hard work.

However, I remember back when I took some lessons with Anga, he would play a particular pattern or chop, and I would imitate etc.. I am known as a bit of a heavy hitter at times, but whenever Anga played something, his presencia would completely kill mine, we couldve played the exact same thing, tone for tone, same speed, same level of volume and clarity but his presencia overshadowed mine.

Dont take the comment said to you as an insult, its something that is natural and will come to you with time.
You dont have to be a heavy hitter to have presencia. You can demonstrate great power in your playing without necesarilly being a heavy hitter.
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby Firebrand » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:21 am

wow...I'm humbled by all your comments. It's gratifying to see approval for one's daily practice and sacrifice.

This was told to me by brother, who plays with some local salsa bands. And also, it seems, some of the other percussionists and bandmembers of one particular salsa band probably made the comment to my brother, who relayed it to me. It kinda came to me as something surprising, considering my technique...but...it was the first criticism of my playing I had heard in a long time, so I wanted to really pay attention to it and see if there was something to it. I didn't want to be an ostrich and put my head in the sand and ignore the criticism, only to see people not hire me because they felt I lacked "presencia". And, there's at least one guy from Stratford Connecticut who has such an amazing heavy-hit to his playing, that I know I'd like to improve my "presencia" to match his. That's definitely something I'm going to ask David "La Mole" to help me out with on the island.

Please keep the suggestions coming. It makes me think about my playing and how to improve it.
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby Firebrand » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:24 am

Quinto Governor II wrote:Firebrand, Are you playing regularly with a band? And who exactly have told you these things? Is it follow congueros? Look at it the other way.You may be giving too much credit to what is being said, and discounting what you,re not hearing. Many may have no problem with your playing, or may even love it, but just have not expressed it to you. What is the reaction of the audience to your band? If they are not disappointed I'd say you're just fine. I certainly hope to achieve your level of playing someday, just based on the video you posted. Johnny C said it all, and that's who you really need to here from. I'm not old school as far as drumming experience is concerned but I appreciated the old players and music very much. Love the new guys also. There is a time and place for everything, but there is a concept called "duly proportioned" which I think we all are trying to achieve. As far as " driving salsa tumbao marchas" are concerned maybe practicing to timba could help you in that area. My impression is that the most swinging tumbaos in salsa playing reminds me of the timba feel, and that the left hand is what separates the men from the boys.
Hey! Johnny C, can we define "Latin Jazz"? I believe I may understand what you are saying. Many "Jazz Bands" play cha chas, salsa, and other Cuban forms. Would you be referring to mostly 6/8 tunes and latin arrangements of jazz standards as the non-dance forms?


I play regularly with several bands...more freelancing. I play with my father's Latin American-guitar quartet, his larger octet band, one straight-puertorican-salsa band, one "salsa conjunto" sextet, one Modern-Jibaro or "Jibaro Rumbero" band, one latin-jazz quintet, and then a lot of odd job work on Drums, Electric Bass, Timbales, Bongos, Peruvian Cajon, and smaller percussion. Conga, is actually a RARE thing for me...I get called more for drums, timbales, and bass.
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby jorge » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:07 am

Less is more. Play less and make each hit count more. Listen carefully to what everyone else is playing and place your slaps where they make a statement and fit in between, not on top of, what everyone else is playing. Hitting a slap on top of a trap drum hit is almost inaudible and it wastes energy, causes pain, and raises the general noise level of the music. I know there are different styles, but silence is a statement too, and playing less lets you be more definitive with what you do play. It is all about contrasts. Even Giovanni plays afinque a lot of the time, and when he comes out with one of his rhythmic explosions it sounds that much more amazing because of the contrast with his rock solid afinque. When Puntilla hit the cha cha of his Iya it sounded like a gunshot, not because he hit hard or loud, but because he was a perfectionist and had his technique down. Mongo had presence, initially because he was so strong and hit the drum so hard. After he started playing with all of his fingers taped up (due to many chronic hand problems) he still had presence, not because he was slamming the drum, but because his timing and the placement of his notes was so perfect and he had swing. You don't have to play louder or harder, just place your accents more deliberately and make them as clean as possible. Practice playing slaps as soft and clean as you can (it's hard), then when you play them louder they will stand out more, with less "finger" noise if all your fingers are hitting at exactly the same time. Just some thoughts from the "old school".
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby vinnieL » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:52 am

ihave seen your videos before brother and i think your underestimating yourself the slaps sound great.
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby thomas newton » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:35 pm

Guys, you are talking a language that is new to me - I don't mean Spanish obv.
Could you help me, and others I am sure, along in my musical education by explaining some of the terms you are using here - presencia, afinque, firmesa, etc?
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby onile » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:47 pm

Alafia Abure Thomas Newton!
I hope that you are well!

As far as some of the terminology being used, here are some applications:

presenicia - overall dynamics; presence on stage and on the congas

afinque - timing; groove; "playing in the pocket"

firmesa - firmness in your playing; overall strength of your technique

Presencia can, and usually does include all of these elements when playing.

Hope this helps some

Onile!
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby Sakuntu » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:32 pm

Thanks Onlile. You are a good ambassador for us "Blanquitos" :lol:
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby Sakuntu » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:32 pm

Thanks Onlile. You are a good ambassador for us "Blanquitos" :lol:
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Re: "Presencia" and Slap power

Postby Quinto Governor II » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:55 pm

Firebrand I see you have a full plate. That's great. Concerning power, my mentor tells me to play more to the center of the drum, or out onto the drum, away from the rim to get a more powerful sound, and to also incorporate the use of the bass stroke when playing tumbao. The point I'm trying to make is that the slap is not the only indicator of power. You probably know this already, but it helps to put as many ideas as possible out there for those who have much more to learn.
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