Matanza Segundo - which way ?

[vinnieludovico]

does any of you expirienced rumberos(certainly not me) prefer one pattern over the other? ie ppttpptt or pttppttp .I learned both and am confused as to which is more common.Zun Zun posted the Matanza Segundo pattern that I initially learned but I seen the other in Spiros and a few other books.Any thoughts

[windhorse]

Our group tends to prefer the "Matanzas" pattern.. Probably because starts with a strong foundation hitting all the beats making a solid square footing for others to play around with little to fall apart.
We actually have four ways to play it..
On one of them you hit the one (first hit of clave), and your left hand plays a tresillo pattern. We prefer this one when you play multiple drums like two or three on for the tres dos.. Or on cajons..
On another, the "Havana" you skip the one, bass on the bombo, and play two tones..
And the other one I never really learned,, but it's a variant of the "Havana".

Question for historians and Cuba fact folks.. Do they really only play the "Matanzas style" in Matanzas? And the "Havana style" in Havana?
Did they once? And that's why we name them this way?

[ralph]

Windhorse,
I would say most likely groups in Havana and Matanzas play both styles proficiently, but even when listening to old recordings, the most famous guaguanco group in Cuba, Los Muñequitos de Matanzas always played the tres dos in the way you mention, and the Havana rumberos always (until recently) played the tres dos with the usual two hits against the clave, a la Los Papines (this distinction in styles is most evident on one of the first recorded examples of rumba, the cd with Guaguanco Matancero (now Los Muñequitos) and Los Papines........ i think at this point in time the line may be blurred a little, what with the advent of guarapachanguero, i'm not too sure if a segundero wouldn't play both styles on one song...but yes historically Los Matanceros played it one way and los Habaneros played it another way....



Edited By ralph on 1197381267

[davidpenalosa]

A few thoughts on the segundo. Sometimes drummers will play guaguanco in the original arrangement that was used when the song was first recorded. For example, note that on the 1970classic "Patato y Totico", the segundo is played on either the three-side or the two-side and some songs use son clave, depending on the historical arrangement.

I noticed in the late 80’s that Hanaberos played the Matanzas-style segundo when accompanying Muñequitos songs. I believe I also saw that part used by Habaneros in other instances as well. My take at the time was that the Matanzas-style guaguanco was in vogue, as it was the most creative.
-David

[vinnieludovico]

Ithink my inquiry was misunderstood.WHEN playing Matanzas style(one open tone on the 2 side), is the pattern pttppttso etc.. OR ppttpptto etc.. p=palm t=tip o=open tone s=slap the "handing " is RLRLRLRL etc.. both patterns start on the first note of clave.\ I have seen and heard both ways.I AM NOT REFERING TO HAVA
A STYLE!I am sorry for my confusing post.I hope I got it right this time

[martingoodson1]

some people play one way some the other. That it!

[jorge]

It can be played correctly either way. The "old school" from Matanzas play it ppttpptto. Naldo, Minini, Regalao, and Enrique from Afrocuba all played it that way, and that is what Naldo showed me. I have seen at least one video of Agustin Diaz from Los Muñequitos playing it that way also, although he plays some other patterns sometimes as well. Some of the younger Matanceros like it the other way, both Luisito Cancino and Sandy Perez of Afrocuba seem to prefer pttppttso, and you can accent the bombo with a left handed bass on the other side of the clave, instead of the tumbador playing that bombo accent. You can also play the slap as a muff tone. Which way you play depends on the song, the singer, the feeling, and who is playing tumbador and quinto with you. Here is a great demonstration of the old school Matanzas seis por ocho pattern we are talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frhfc5oo-qo&feature=related



Edited By jorge on 1197569778

[Tonio]

Agreed w/ Jorge,
IMO the pttppttso style seems to flow in a workable feel and gives more of a ground for variations - muff or slap etc. It kind of gives more of a squared out handing pattern. It may be because that was the way I learned, but the ppttpptto style is easier to loose the feel. Or should I say its easier to miss the accent notes in time line.

T

[davidpenalosa]

In 1992 I organized three days of workshops and a performance by Los Muñequitos in Arcata, CA. All the male members took part in the drum classes and I was pleasantly surprised with how organized, accessible and uniformed their teaching method was. They taught the segundo with the "ppttpptto" method. However, they re-entered the pattern after the open two different ways:

O.ttpptt

and

O.t.pptt

-David

[yambu321]

I DO AGREE WITH JORGE. AND WHEN EVER POSSIBLE I ALSO LIKE TO MIX IT UP BACK AND FORTH TO ADD DIFFERENT MUSICAL COLORS, FOR ATTENTIVE EARS

[windhorse]

O.ttpptt

and

O.t.pptt

Dave, are these with the tone still after third strike of clave?

If so, we play it that second way. My teacher says he likes the tone with more sustain especially at faster speeds, and that's his reasoning for leaving out the touch afterwards..

Dave 2

[davidpenalosa]

Dave, are these with the tone still after third strike of clave?

Hi Dave,
Yes.

[vinnieludovico]

THANX guys.I was busy and am in a different time zone, which makes it tuff to comment sometimes.But ,again .much appreciated. ps:this site is very happenin!