One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

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One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri May 08, 2009 5:43 pm

Kind of a carry over from a different thread and from conversations I have been having lately.
There is a phrase "The fox that chases two rabbits, catches neither."

Applying this to percussion, do you guys believe you should master one instrument completely before
moving onto the next? Or do you work at several instruments simultaneously?

Myself, I started on bongos and when I added congas I felt they really informed each other as musically.
The technique was a little different, but the material I was learning on the congas really helped me with
bongos.
Then when I started learning rumba, I spent time with all the instruments, shekere, bell, clave and palitos.
For me it's better to play rumba/folkloric knowing all the instruments, tumbadoras and everything else.

I'm looking forward to learning bata soon and have the feeling that this will only help the other instruments as
well.

Of course I understand the concept of specializing in one instrument as well, or limiting oneself to just a couple. Not that
I disagree, it's just not the way for me.
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby Congadelica » Fri May 08, 2009 8:10 pm

I am pretty much with you on this I have been thinking in a similar way of late .
I am currently learning Rumba , Bata and Folklorico rythms in 3 separate study groups . at times I feel Im leaving myself thin on the ground learning too much at once . But in the short time 6 months I can honestly say each disciplin complements the other in some ways .
My mentor told me its the best way to learn by just getting deep with it .
I have had a great time learning , its hard sometimes not to be thinking of all things .
My bigest goal I have set myself is to Play Clave /Bell while singing I am getting closer to mastering this disciplin and I cant say enough of good it feels . Its amazing how much i`ve learned is the past few years , I have had some great advice from people here on this forum .
Keep on learning Geordie .
Poco a poco .

Life`s long journey is much better now I found this music .


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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby windhorse » Fri May 08, 2009 10:37 pm

Congadelica wrote:I am pretty much with you on this I have been thinking in a similar way of late .
I am currently learning Rumba , Bata and Folklorico rythms

My bigest goal I have set myself is to Play Clave /Bell while singing I am getting closer to mastering this disciplin and I cant say enough of good it feels . Its amazing how much i`ve learned is the past few years



Yep, I'm with you guys there,, everything at once.. And like Marco I've got a main focus at any given time too.. My focus these past few years has also been playing bell or clave and singing.. It's spreading too! I'm having small breakthroughs almost at every session where I can play a particular drum part and be able to hold it while singing!
I believe that the bell/clave is best way in to all the parts since it covers the largest beat spectrum, and you are the main instrument to follow for timing when you're playing it. So, you get a coordination with timing. It's certainly a "giant can of worms", but opens up really big windows for many avenues with the whole ensemble of percussion.
I think it all fits together like a big puzzle and it's definitely valid to come at it from all sides. Certainly just as valid as being linear and only getting good at one thing at a time, but I would argue even more-so.
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby akdom » Sat May 09, 2009 8:15 am

Hi all

I really believe that as congueros, not only we have to globally understand the Latin rhythmic but we also have to know how to play most of the other instruments we play along with.

Clave, bells, guiro, maracas... have to be understood. Not necessarily mastered, but I think we have to know what patterns they play and how they are played.
When it comes to timbales, we need to know what a cascara is and what the main patterns are.

But in a sens, this comes naturally (at least for me), since when you play in a band, you have to understand the polyrythmic (spelling?) patterns.

Once again, this is just my point of view.

Then, just for info and to try to bring a bit more to this thread, here is a short explanation on how I came to congas:
I started with bongoes because they are easy to carry and relatively cheap. I quickly understood that percussions were more than toys..
I then took a couple of classes on Gwokas. Then I added the djembe for a few more years and finally congas.

All these stages helped me understand what rhythm was and how it worked from various view points.

To conclude, it is always good to know more than our main instrument.

B
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby vinnieL » Sat May 09, 2009 10:33 am

My goal was always to learn the trilogy Conga, Bongo and Timbal. Of course I have my favorite instrument and true love the conga but i feel the need to learn the other two.
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby vinnieL » Sat May 09, 2009 11:30 am

To add to my last post I feel like i need to get moving and learn as much as I can because while some may look at me and say well he's a young guy he has time I don't feel like I do have time on my side. I am rapidly approaching 40 and all time does at this point is erode my physical skills. Some here are 40 or 50 something but have been playing since they were kids so your talking 35 years or more of playing. For me I feel like I have to spend more time learning and practicing than the other guy because I started later in life. It's not a competition between myself and the guy who's been playing longer but a drive to bring myself up to a respectable level of playing my main instrument which is the conga while striving to reach a decent level on bongo and timbale so that if I'm playing with a group of friends I am not limited to just conga because maybe that may not be an option because there may be a guy there that is so good it would be stupid to argue that you must be on conga. That is my reason for wanting to pursue different instruments. When the guy down the street puts in an hour of practice i put in 3 or 4 as often as i can probably 3-4 days a week the other days i get minimum of an hour due to work etc.
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby Tonio » Sat May 09, 2009 7:46 pm

Hey I like that term used: Trilogy-Conga , Timbales. bongos.

Agreed- learn all the instruments involved. They are all related to complete the rhythm. From there you can always choose which is your main " instrument". You may tend to work on that instrument more, so its best to keep your proficiency up with the others . I am sure we all fall into that .


On a side note, you can be creative in a non traditional way utiiizing one instruments pattern onto another. But thats another topic I suppose.

T
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby umannyt » Mon May 11, 2009 10:30 pm

vinnieL wrote:My goal was always to learn the trilogy Conga, Bongo and Timbal. Of course I have my favorite instrument and true love the conga but i feel the need to learn the other two.

vinnieL,

I have no problem with learning the bongo and timbales simultaneously with the congas. Learning is really a lifetime experience and how fast one learns all 3 instruments depends on one's talents. One may take a little longer to become proficient in all 3 instruments than if one focuses on 1 instrument at a time. But, with the right dedication to the necessary amount of practice time and effort, you should eventually get there.

Another way to visualize learning multiple percussion without getting overwhelmed by the thought is to think of the trilogy (congas, bongos and timbales) as all part of a multi-percussion kit, just like a kit drum.

Btw, have you heard of Richie Gajate-Garcia (http://www.gajate.com/)? His nickname is "El Pulpo" (The Octopus) and he's a longtime session artist and an LP endorser. As his nickname implies, he can play several percussion instruments simultaneously. He's got a couple of videos: (1) Close Up on Congas - Vol. 1 and (2) Close-Up on Bongos And Timbales - Vol. 2. In Vol. 1, you'll see him playing multi-percussion. You can probably see clips of these instructionals on YouTube. He's one of my inspirations and influences.

Best of luck,
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby Anonimo » Mon May 11, 2009 11:15 pm

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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby bongosnotbombs » Mon May 11, 2009 11:20 pm

I prefer to think of the trilogy as congas-bata-bongos, but
I can see why it's conga-bongos-timbales for others.

I kind of have in mind old school players like Francisco Aguabella, Armando Peraza and
especially Mongo Santamaria.
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby ABAKUA » Tue May 12, 2009 1:40 am

Just to touch on 'El Pulpo' he does what he does well. ie the multi tasking and multi instrument playing. etc.
He was here several years ago, did a huge demo clinic in which he said a whole bunch of stuff and played a bit of everything....
He was then invited to get up and play with a local (and at the time no# 1) 12 piece salsa dura/latin jazz band which was to follow his performance...
He played congas for a track or two and was sad to see. He simply did not cut it. Same thing happened when he played timbal, he simply could not cut it.
He promptly bowed out and got off stage to quickly dissapear behind the curtain and was not seen for the rest of the night.
Player of many things at same time, master of none Id have to say.
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby umannyt » Tue May 12, 2009 5:52 am

In the various genres of music, such as those played by my 2 bands (one playing all-original blues, rock and pop music and the other playing R&B, disco, Latin rock and fusion jazz covers), most bands who have a percussionist can't afford to have a separate conga, bongo and timbales player. The percussionist has to be a multi-tasker, a jack of all trades. He may not be a master of one, but if he's proficient enough in all 3, then he's got the gig.

As a matter of fact, a percussionist is very lucky to find a dance band that even needs his/her services. Many dance bands that I know or see don't even have one. In some of these bands, the drummer, if he's versatile, doubles as the percussionist as well.

El Pulpo's influence on me is limited to my role as a multi-percussionist (I also happen to be the lead male vocalist) in a dance band. The set-up that my cover dance band has is close to that of "Earth, Wind & Fire" (but without the horn section), where one of the lead vocalists (Philip Bailey) also acts as a percussionist (mostly congas). In fact, it's more accurate to say that I'm the lead male vocalist and sometime rhythm guitarist who happens to also be the percussionist--not the other way around.
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby umannyt » Tue May 12, 2009 6:29 am

ABAKUA wrote:Just to touch on 'El Pulpo' he does what he does well. ie the multi tasking and multi instrument playing. etc.
He was here several years ago, did a huge demo clinic in which he said a whole bunch of stuff and played a bit of everything....
He was then invited to get up and play with a local (and at the time no# 1) 12 piece salsa dura/latin jazz band which was to follow his performance...
He played congas for a track or two and was sad to see. He simply did not cut it. Same thing happened when he played timbal, he simply could not cut it.
He promptly bowed out and got off stage to quickly dissapear behind the curtain and was not seen for the rest of the night.
Player of many things at same time, master of none Id have to say.


From his biography below (http://www.gajate.com/biography.htm), El Pulpo is described as being primarily a Latin rock percussionist. So, to expect him to shine in a Salsa Dura/Latin Jazz band (or even in a folkloric rumba) is probably like expecting a heart surgeon to perform brain surgery. Rock and Salsa Dura/Latin Jazz are 2 different musical genres requiring 2 different sets of percussion skills.

For somebody described as a "Player of many things at same time, master of none", there's probably no denying that El Pulpo has been blessed with many bigtime gigs that's the envy of many percussionists, including some so-called "masters of one".

BIOGRAPHY

"Richie Gajate-Garcia is a drummer, percussionist, clinician and educator. He has traveled the world and recorded with many renown artists. His nickname is "El Pulpo" (which means the octopus in Spanish) a nickname given to him for his unique independence and ability to play multiple percussion instruments simultaneously.

"Richie was voted to be one of the top Latin percussionists by his peers in the Modern Drummer Reader's Poll and one of the top Rock percussionists in DRUM! Magazine by its readers this year.

"Gajate. who is Puerto Rican grew up on the island with friends of his father which included Tito Puente and Armando Peraza and an appreciation for salsa and a love for Latin percussion. Gajate obtained his bachelor's degree in Music Education from the Conservatory of Music in Chicago, as well as his teaching credentials.

"Gajate is a sought after percussionist who has accompanied artists such as Phil Collins, Sting, Celia Cruz, Tito Puente, Diana Ross, Hiroshima, Patti Labelle, Amy Grant, Brooks and Dunn, Luis Miguel, John Denver, Art Garfunkel and many, many more.

"He has recorded on soundtracks to films such as "The Italian Job", "Maid in Manhattan" with Jennifer Lopez, "I-Spy" with Eddie Murphy and the classic "The Mummy Returns" with the London Symphony. He is the percussionist of choice for the Disney Studios and has played on many of the Disney Animated films such as: Kronk's New Groove, Emperor's New Groove, Brother Bear, Robots.

"Richie has toured the world as a top clinician for Latin Percussion Inc. and Sabian Cymbals Ltd. He has two instructional videos produced by LP and distributed by Warner Bros. entitled "Close-Up on Congas" and "Close-Up on Bongos and Timbales" from the Adventures in Rhythm series.

"He is an author and has three instructional books on the market published by Warner Bros. Publications entitled "Play Timbales Now", "Play Congas Now" and "Play Bongos and Hand Percussion Now". Richie is also a contributing author to "DRUM!" Magazine.

"Richie has three solo projects out. His "Entre Amigos" c.d. celebrates his Latin roots and showcases Richie and his musician friends. This c.d. is a celebration of Richie's life

"His c.d. "Mis Tres Hijos" is an instrumental work of art, which showcases his ability to master the finesse of graceful percussion.

"His third CD Reggaeson con tumbao with R & T, Richie and Thania. Reggaeson con tumbao is a hybred of today's popular style Reaggaeton."
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby Tonio » Wed May 13, 2009 4:08 am

bongosnotbombs wrote:I prefer to think of the trilogy as congas-bata-bongos, but
I can see why it's conga-bongos-timbales for others.

I kind of have in mind old school players like Francisco Aguabella, Armando Peraza and
especially Mongo Santamaria.


BNB, well yeah, they are my main inspiration too , among others!! But, each are mulit -instrumentalist as far as this topic goes. Personally I find Francisco is more of an multi talented.
I think most of us are referring to the Salsa side of the house. More modern I suppose?

But I see where you're coming from, its just hard in staying in that mindset. How many"acts" per se can actually make a living in that style. Please don't get me wrong, that is the ultimate root stuff , but to make it theses days you need to have vast knowledge and rhythmic technique. If your goal does not encompass " making it" then I fully support you to go down that road and uphold the tradition. Michael Spiro comes to mind.

Personally, I could not handle that road. I think I started too late in my life. Starting from more of a R&B, Latin Jazz, Fusion mindset, I want to have more fun than uphold " the tradition", while being creative instead of a straighter line. When I say late in my life, sure I started in junior high school. but there were no means of getting a real tutoring where I was at. 10 years later ( with some military duties) I had to start over.

Are you ready to uphold the tradition ?


T
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Re: One percussion instrument at a time? Or more?

Postby pavloconga » Wed May 13, 2009 4:28 am

I think it's really great to not only develop on several percussion instruments over time but also learn about other rhythmic traditions and instruments to expand your playing.
For example, the rhythms of Africa are countless, as well as deep and can be adapted to 2 or 3 congas and played in certain sections of some latin music or to other kinds of music (to my ears at least, adapting some of them to congas they have a feel much like some of the patterns played in Timba). It also works the other way - in my case I also play congas in a 10 piece West African band and often use a mix of Latin and African rhythms.

Hi Abakua, as for Richie Garcia - 'Horses for courses' I think - sounds like he's more of a kit drummer/all rounder than a salsa conguero.
I don't know his playing much, but he must be doing something right, as he has had an LP endorsement for a long time.

ciao and peace
Last edited by pavloconga on Wed May 13, 2009 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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