Palm/Tip

[afrocubarico]

Hello fellow congueros/congueras!
I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on this. I've seen both Changuito and Tata Guines use a method of the palm-tip move but the hand is pulled back so that it looks like the top edge of the drum is almost in the palm. What is this? Is this technique of performing the palm-tip a method to increase speed? As always, many thanks!

afrocubarico

[JohnnyConga]

It's part of the "mano secreto" technique...it's kind of like a "pull back hand drag" as i would describe it...speed is achieved basically just thru daily practice of your single, double stroke rolls, and really pushing oneself to achive the level of speed your looking for....you can also get "finger weights" also, to work with so when u take them off your hands they will be faster without the weights.....my 3 congas...Johnny Conga....

[afrocubarico]

J.C.,
Thanks for the 411 my brother. But I think I probably wasn't very clear in my post. The position I'm referring to is not actually the "pull-back" method you described. Instead, its actually the palm-tip done at the rear edge of the drum instead of in the center of the drum. It almost looks as if the heel of the palm is hanging slightly over the edge/rim of the drum but stationed there throughout the movement. Kind of feels weird when I tried doing palm-tip in that position.

Incidently that pull back double you referred to is a move I'm currently working on, taught to me by La Mole. Definitely works your patience trying to develop speed but a great rudimentary-type move to add to your arsenal of technique!

afrocubarico

[Derbeno]

It's hard to visualize.
May I hazard a guess that the palm on the side is a ghost note and the tip is a touch following the ghost???

[tamboricua]

Instead, its actually the palm-tip done at the rear edge of the drum instead of in the center of the drum.

afrocubarico

Afrocubarico,

Your observation is correct!!! That hand position around the edge of the drum is crucial to Changuito's "Mano secreta" technique.

By doing so, there is no need anymore to lift the hand away from the drum when playing an open tone.

I might suggest you to check out Changuito's "Evolution of the Tumbadoras" instructional video in which he goes in detail about this.

Hope this helps!!!

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio



Edited By tamboricua on 1193258588

[Diceman]

I have seen it used by some players of the south american persuasion, and what you say Jorge makes sense, but how go you get that big bass tone on the 1 and the 3 if you are only using part of your hand and the edge of the drum.
Is it just for speed or is there a way of getting the full palm-tip sound?

Suave

[tamboricua]

and what you say Jorge makes sense, but how go you get that big bass tone on the 1 and the 3 if you are only using part of your hand and the edge of the drum.
Is it just for speed or is there a way of getting the full palm-tip sound?

Suave

Diceman,

How you achieve that bass at the edge of the drum???

By practicing correctly, very slow and little by little developing your endurance.

As a matter of fact, that will be the first "movimiento" that Changuito will show you on a lesson with him.

You use the "full flat hand" to achieve the bass around the edge. Making sure the base of the palm (part closer to your wrist) is resting flat on the edge of the drum. Kind of hard to explain in words. Best thing is to watch "Chango" demonstrate it on his video.

This technique not only helps with speed but also with your endurance by minimizing the energy and effort you will have to employ at the drum.

Hope this helps!!!

Saludos...

Jorge Ginorio



Edited By tamboricua on 1193258975

[JohnnyConga]

Can anyone post part of the Changuito Evolution of the Tumbadoras on here for us to see that movement,that dont have it?....its not on youtube, i checked...Johnny Conga...

[tamboricua]

Can anyone post part of the Changuito Evolution of the Tumbadoras on here for us to see that movement,that dont have it?....its not on youtube, i checked...Johnny Conga...

Here you go guys:

This come from another video by Chango and Giovanni but it shows clearly part of the "movimiento" I'm referring to.

Changuito Hand Movement #1

Notice how the base of the palm rest along the drum edge and also how they use a total flat hand for the palm stroke.

Hope this helps!!!

Jorge Ginorio



Edited By tamboricua on 1193262555

[Diceman]

Jorge,

Thanks man very helpful.
I got the impression the palm-tip was done with the hand in the open tone position and I was missing a trick.

suave

[afrocubarico]

Jorge,
Thanks for posting that video link. However, I think the best video that I have seen that shows a better view of the palm-tip I'm referring to is in the Evolution of the Tumbadoras video with Giovanni and Changuito. It's in the segment where Changuito is demonstrating one of his rudiments right after being asked about applying drum rudiments to congas. Interesting that Changuito says he does not utilize or teach drum rudiments for congas. IMO, this is a great video and would recommend it to all congueros of all levels.

I also noticed that this particular method of the palm-tip is heavily utilized by Tata Guines. Because its performed with the heel of the palm at the rear edge of the drum rim, I'm wondering if getting that bass sound is not important here.

afrocubarico

[TONE74]

Whants up Afrocubarico, I could swear I heard Changuito say that the reason for it was to be able to slap without moving too far so he would be able to get all the tones in the same area therefore be fast while using the least movement. To be efficient I guess. If you dont have the evolution of tumbadoras video let me know. I have it but haven't really checked it out yet. There is a lot of talking on that video so I guess thats why but he does go over a few key points.

Hows your practicing coming along so far? What are you working on right now? The guys I was playing with seem to be loosing interest plus the weather is getting cold but I'm still working at it at home. Take care bro. Peace

[Tonio]

Thanks for posting that Jorge.

IMO, I wouldn't call that heel stroke to be at the rear edge? You guys call it that? I would call it the fonrt edge-because its closest to you.

But, in general the heel toe is a good warm up excercise and a pre-requisite for rumba. Not to mention a good time keeping method and trick for soloing.
With 2 hands of course.

T

[Tone]

I may be wrong but I think that what Afrocubarico is referring to is something else.
when using the bacateo on the side of the drum you can achieve a roll with very little effort ( but huge amount of practise).
You an see an examle of this in Giovanni's tradition video towards the end.
The trick is to get a good open tone when coming down with the palm then the double is a normal open tone.
You need to drag and pull the hand a bit towards you in order for the base of the fingers ( at the junction with the palm) to hit the exact edge of the drum and get a clean tone. In that motion the palm actually dips a bit below the edge of the drum.

One way of practising it is to play palm tip with palm on the bass followed by tip as an open tone, then you gradually pull the bass towards the edge until you get a tone instead.
In my opinion yo still need to practise just getting a tone with the palm motion as well.

then you can apply all your palm tip rudiments to just open tones. like pptt or ptpt or tripltes pptpptppt or pttpttpttptt or ppttptpt or millions of others. I am still working on this but it seems that it should be possible to get a slap with the tip as well, expanding possibilities tremendously.

Hope that helped someone out there.

peace

[ABAKUA]

You can see some mano secreta used here by Anga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aBuFXnICHY