Current Practice - A new webpage for sharing rhythms

[windhorse]

Current Practice

[TONE74]

Windhorse that is a good idea. I'm always trying to break rhythms down on you tube or whatever. I just tried to add something but the image would not load to the website.

[windhorse]

Oh, sorry, if you want to add something,, send it to me and I can put it on there..
It was really for what I'm doing and thinking about, but I'm totally open to adding stuff that people send me.
It would be cool to have a centralized document with patterns that people are currently working on..

It'd be easier though to just post our patterns here in the thread, or upload to your own server with a link..
:p

[TONE74]

I was trying to add it to this website ( this forum ) but it would not load.
I thought about this idea before so when I read something about sharing rhythms in your post heading it sounded good. My bad though. My images won't load anyway so it makes no difference.

[windhorse]

I was trying to add it to this website ( this forum ) but it would not load.

Well, why the heck not?
Are trying the File attachments tab at the bottom of the posting page? Click on the Browse button and find your image then add reply.
of course it can't be too ultra huge..

[bongosnotbombs]

You guys trying to do this?

I think this would be a great addition to
the Congabook on the homepage.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... ument1.jpg

[Whopbamboom]

I see that someone is attempting to notate 6/8 time as "1 & a 2 & a 3 & a 4 & a". This is not the best way to try to notate that. 6/8 really should be notated "1-2-3 4-5-6", with the feel being strong on the one and semi-strong on the 4. This leaves the "&" available for notating 16th's. Plus, if you read something notated as "1 & a 2 & a 3 & a 4 & a", then you'd more readily see that as 4/4 time, with each beat being broken sown into an eighth plus two 16'ths--- which is simply NOTHING like what 6/8 time is.

Perhaps what this board needs is a way to import correct notation into the forums, like what could be created with Finale or similar program. That way there would be no question as to what someone is attempting to notate.

[bongosnotbombs]

I know Windhorse calls it out as being 6/8. However whenever I see that bell pattern I am thinking 12/8 as the bell takes 12 beats to resolve the pattern.

Didn't blango and David Penalosa have a big discussion on 6/8 vs. 12/8 a few months back?

[windhorse]

yeah whatever........
It's already a problem trying to notate something which isn't necessarily what you are representing.
Notation shuould first and foremost be understood as easily as possible.
Hence, the reason I always post in block form.
I don't write that way for myself at all..
I use a modified Western that has the notes above or bellow the line representing right hand and left hand strokes. A filled note is a bass, an X is a slap,,, etc..
Of course, someone who plays lots of folkloric wants to see the bell or clave in first line, and has no need for the count. But, someone who feels the 4 pulse more readily, and counts four main beats in a measure - Most Common Americans - are going to want to see the count with four beats..
Hence 6/8 is 1&Uh2&Uh3&uh..
Personally, I often count 1-2-3-4-5-6 on the 6/8s..
It'd be a nice exercise to count it all the ways you can think of while playing... (whoof!)
It's all good.. But you can argue till the cows come home about counting - and it just doesn't matter - compared to understanding the pattern itself..

[Whopbamboom]

Ah, but counting 6/8 as 1&a2&a3&a4&a, if that's what those "common American" people are doing, is counting two measures of the 6/8-- not one measure. That would still be improper. The count should be for each single measure, not for two measures at a time. Counting two at a time will cause big problems if an even number of measures aren't used in a section (and a lot of music is written with odd amounts of measures). Plus, there is still the clash with the more standard way to read that "1&a2&a3&a4&a" as 4/4 time, with each beat being broken into one eighth plus two 16th's.

I think the real problem is that a lot of people have never been taught how to count things properly, which will certainly lead to widespread confusion when incorrect attempts at notating/counting are made. I run across musicians fairly frequently that have no idea how to either count rhythms out, or to notate those rhythms.
Yet this problem would not exist if these musicians would simply learn the standard way of notating music, and counting it as well.

I stand by my statement that it would be VERY helpful if there was an easy way to add actual (and correct) music notation with staffs and noteheads, to this discussion forum here on congaplace. Trying to interpret other people's home-made systems, without hearing the rhythms that those people are attempting to notate, is just incredibly unreliable. You wind up taking guesses and coming up with who-knows-what kind of conclusions. Different people have their own systems, whether their systems are fundamentally flawed or not. And unless people all use a standard way of notating (which is what actual musical notation in correct form does), then that confusion will simply continue when others attempt to decipher. There is a standard, official way of notating most rhythms. And we can always add hand techniques or tones underneath those noteheads.

Case in point-- 3 nights ago, I began composing another song with my wife... the riff we are using has use of measures based on 7/8, and measures based on 8/8, with some of the sections having a total of either 29 eighths or 30 eighths, depending on how many of each measure we use. Both the 7/8 measures and the 8/8 measures are highly syncopated in places. Then we move to a section that has 6/8 time, yet there is changing meter (we insert an extra beat here and there). This is about as far away from standard "common American" 4/4 time with even amounts of measures in each section, as you can get! Can you imagine trying to notate that out using some ambiguous or non-standard notation? But I was able to notate it very quickly and accurately by using the standard music notation system that is taught in music schools everywhere. And, I should be able to hand that notation to anyone else who has learned standard music notation, and they should be able to play it exactly as I have played the rhythm.

I hope this post doesn't rub people the wrong way--
What I am really hoping is that someone will create a way to add standard notation to this forum so that people can start using it when explaining a particular rhythm. Life will become easier again, LOL

[bongosnotbombs]

Isn't that why we have bells and clave? The bell pattern is kind of a notation system in itself.
The bell pattern stays the same no matter which numbers you use.
Counting 1&a2&a3&a4&a isn't counting two measures of 6/8 it is counting one measure of 12/8, or at least that's how I've always been taught.

but you know WBB the music you describe sounds very interesting, anywhere to listen to it?



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1197522851

[windhorse]

Ah, but counting 6/8 as 1&a2&a3&a4&a, if that's what those "common American" people are doing, is counting two measures of the 6/8-- not one measure. That would still be improper. The count should be for each single measure, not for two measures at a time. Counting two at a time will cause big problems if an even number of measures aren't used in a section (and a lot of music is written with odd amounts of measures).
-snip-
What I am really hoping is that someone will create a way to add standard notation to this forum so that people can start using it when explaining a particular rhythm. Life will become easier again, LOL

Yeah sure,, I see what you mean,,
In some instances it matters... But if you can play bell or clave,, then it doesn't.
The pattern-motif remains the same no matter how it's counted..
As long as people are writing in 16ths, and you've got the grid for how the drum notes interface against clave, then it should be easily understood.
Even so, if it's a pattern new to you, it probably takes a few weeks at best to "get it down" and start ripping it.

Anyway,, there are several guys I know on the forum, including myself (to a small degree) that read standard notation, but it seems that it mostly would fall flat since many would probably balk at trying to learn how to read it..
I once posted what I was doing in modified standard that we use around here, and it seemed most didn't understand and wanted it in block..
Maybe I'm wrong..
Perhaps a poll is in order?
D

[Whopbamboom]

I guess I've just been having a little trouble deciphering other people's notation, since I am so used to standard music notation. Standard muisc notation leaves little or no question as to what the rhythm really is, but non-standard notation can get confusing since the notation could be based on any number of other non-standard systems. Instead of harping on this subject... perhaps when there is a possibility of interpreting someone else's notation in more than one way, I'll just try to interpret it the different possible ways and maybe come up with some nice variations in the process.

Still would be nice to be able to upload files from music notation programs such as Finale, for those members so inclined. Hopefully someone can say how to do this.

............

BNB, my wife and I don't do all our music with heavy use of changing meter, we're just now starting to explore together the lilting rhythms and interesting song structures that can be created with changing meter and uneven numbers of measures, or by shortening a measure or lengthening a measure. I myself do this semi-fluently on a single hand drum, but my wife is just beginning with the learning of changing meter. She's getting there, though-- I am currently teaching her these types of concepts so that we can incorporate them in our own music (she's the songwriter, but I teach her stuff that she then runs off with, and then I come back through and tweak/shape the songs into even better pieces). Not that our own music actually sounds very much like these other bands, but some of our listening influences include bands like Tool, Mudvayne, Metallica, Godsmack, Alice In Chains, etc. for some of the different musical elements or concepts that can be drawn from. Of these bands I just mentioned, I think Tool has the most amount of use of changing meter. Perhaps Metallica and Mudvayne come in next, depending on which songs you're talking about (some of their stuff is very even-steven). Not sure how much use of changing meter Godsmack does, as I haven't really listened for that in their music... but they are heavy on groove. We also listen to LOTS of other types of music, including "world" music.
Anyhoo.... to answer your question, we ourselves do not yet have sound files to share. We still need to copyright our catalog of works before we start to "get it out there". Hopefully we'll be ready to do that by summer. We still have some preparations to do.



Edited By Whopbamboom on 1197585322

[Whopbamboom]

Oh, you guys mentioned the use of clave or bell for keeping time. I don't know if that's a technique that I'm familiar with or not... doesn't sound familiar by that description, though perhaps I already use the technique in places. I'm always open to new techniques... where's a good place to start learning about that one?



Edited By Whopbamboom on 1197585432

[bongosnotbombs]

When I'm taught a new rhythm in one of my classes it is demonstrated to me while someone plays clave.
The clave (or bell pattern) becomes a landmark to base where you and a rumba ensemble are at in time.
By knowing where a note occurs in relation to where the notes on the clave occur is how you keep track of the cadence of the rhythm.

For instance a rhythm I was taught recently, Yambu...

The first note played on the drum occurs just after the first hit of 3/2 clave.
The third note played on the drum occurs on the second hit of 3/2 clave.
The last note played on the drum occurs on the last note of 3/2 clave.

but really i am the wrong person to teach you about clave, there are many here more qualified than I.

I think of the claves and bells as metronomes that don't play just the beats, they also play a melody that is interwoven into the composition of the rhythm. Sometimes they play the beat sometimes around it, but if you know the clave or the bell, it will always tell you where you are.