windhorse wrote:there isn't a real one or three. It's just for writing purposes..
davidpenalosa wrote:windhorse wrote:there isn't a real one or three. It's just for writing purposes..
Sorry Dave, I disagree. There is a 1 (and a 2, 3, 4) and it is independent of any writing system (which is relatively recent of course. The four main beats are a real factor and they have a set sequence. In other words, the 2 never beomes the 3. Once the key pattern cycle is etablished, the main beat cycle is also set.
Boy, we are really opening up lots of "cans of worms" these days aren't we?
-David
Regarding the 3-2, 2-3 concept and terminology. It is only in effect when there’s a harmonic progression present.
The 3-2, 2-3 concept and terminology resulted from the interface of clave with the European harmonic matrix. According to Bobby Sanabria, the concept was developed by Mario Bauza in the 1940’s.
Machito and his Afro-Cubans, under the direction of Bauza, was the first band to overtly exploit the possibilities of moving the chord progression form one side of clave to the other within the same piece of music.
In folkloric music "one" is always the first beat of the three-side. This is the point in musical time where the clave matrix is initiated, the moment of rhythmic "ignition. At its most fundamental, the rhythmic progression of clave consists of the call/response sequence of two opposed cells (three-side/two-side), over the primary beat scheme: 1, 2, 3, 4.
The chord progression is the primary referent and establishes the "one".
Not convinced? Try this experiment: Play a rhythm where all the fills, solos and accents are on the three-side. You might say the "rhythm is in 3-2". Now superimpose a 2-3 piano guajeo over the rhythm (all correct relationships to clave are maintained). The moment the piano enters on the two-side, you will hear the "one" on the two-side. This is not just something musicians hear, dancers would also feel this change.
There is a common misconception that certain rhythms have a set clave sequence. There are no 3-2 rhythms, or 2-3 rhythms per sé.
In a folkloric context, the "one" is always on the three-side, but it’s not proper to say "everything is 3-2 in folkloric music". The 3-2, 2-3 concept is in no way a factor.
In folkloric music beat 1 is the beginning of the cycle, regardless of where in that cycle a percussion or vocal part enters. The key patterns in folkloric music start on the three-side because that’s where the clave matrix is initiated. Even if you were to sing a medley of orisha songs that all started on the two-side, you would still begin the bell on the three-side. The songs just come in half-way through the bell. They are not "2-3 songs".
You could put a 3-2 chord progression over those songs (a jazz/bembe fusion let’s say) and the songs would all be in 3-2. It doesn’t matter where in clave a part enters, it’s the chord progression that sets the clave sequence ("direction").
Yes, there is a strong accent on the downbeat of the two-side in iyesa.
We have all heard that "clave is the key", "everything is in relation to clave", etc. I have never heard that "the strong on-beat accent is the key". Nor would that rhythmic accent have any bearing whatsoever on whether a popular song is in 3-2 or 2-3. A chord progression could just as easily be in 3-2 as 2-3 in some kind of popular music-iyesa fusion.
>>>Regarding the 3-2, 2-3 concept and terminology. It is only in effect when there’s a harmonic progression present.<<<
>>... In other words, when you can identify a metric "1".<<
Hi Thomas,
I don’t understand. What form of popular Cuban music does not have an identifiable "metric 1"?
You think that using the 3-2, 2-3 terminology is appropriate for describing where a chorus or percussion part enters.
If you have Rebeca Mauleon’s "Salsa Guidebook", I think I can convince you otherwise very quickly. If you don’t have the book, I can email you a jpeg of the page. It’s pg. 160 from the section "The Melody and Clave", ex. 4.176 and 4.177.
By "metric one" do you mean an on-beat emphasis, or is harmony involved? Do these "metric ones" ever occur on offbeats?
The metric gravity is in the four main beats.
How are you able to select multiple quotes from other postings? I’m only able to select one quote at a time. Selecting multiple quotes is very cool, much better than my method of using >> << marks.
I agree with Agawu: "No one hears [the bell] without also hearing – actuality or imaginatively – the movement of feet."
OK, but the structures of sub-Saharan African rhythm are independent of European measuring systems. The whole "strong beat", "weak beat" concept of European measures is not applicable to African rhythm.
Thomas Altmann wrote:Who told you how Africans perceive African music? And which Africans exactly?
Thomas Altmann wrote:However, the only instances where I found binary clave patterns like the Cuban Son clave are modern creations like Kpanlogo that post-date Cuban Son. According to Wikipedia;
“Kpanlogo is a recreational dance and music form from Ghana, West Africa. It was first played by the Ga ethnic group, most of whom live in and around the capital city, Accra, but is now performed and enjoyed throughout the country. It is a celebration song that came to popularity around 1960, but is based on much older drumming patterns.”
So my question regarding your theory that binary clave forms existed in Africa before the Cuban Son clave, is: Which other African rhythms do you know that incorporate these patterns?
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