Rumbero vs Conguero - Which describes your style?

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Rumbero vs Conguero - Which describes your style?

Rumbero.
5
13%
Conguero.
4
11%
Both equally.
9
24%
Percussionist.
18
47%
I just like to make noise, man!
2
5%
 
Total votes : 38

Re: Rumbero vs Conguero - Which describes your style?

Postby Miguel7 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:15 am

I think the best one for me would be "musician" or "Latin music nut" :D

Someone said on here, "a percussionist in Latin music must be versed or at least know how to play conga, bongo, timbales, and tambora. and all other minor perc ie, guiro, guira, maraca, shekere, etc. A conguero to me is someone who just plays congas." I agree wholeheartedly.

But that's only part of what I do. I do play the instruments mentioned above (minus the tambora which I hope to get into when I can save up the $ for one lol), but also the keyboard and guitar. I suppose those are rhythm instruments as well but not percussion. So u can call me a conguero, bongocero etc. but I'm just an all-around Latin music nut :)
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Re: Rumbero vs Conguero - Which describes your style?

Postby DJBakan » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:49 am

Miguel7 wrote:I think the best one for me would be "musician" or "Latin music nut" :D

Someone said on here, "a percussionist in Latin music must be versed or at least know how to play conga, bongo, timbales, and tambora. and all other minor perc ie, guiro, guira, maraca, shekere, etc. A conguero to me is someone who just plays congas." I agree wholeheartedly.

But that's only part of what I do. I do play the instruments mentioned above (minus the tambora which I hope to get into when I can save up the $ for one lol), but also the keyboard and guitar. I suppose those are rhythm instruments as well but not percussion. So u can call me a conguero, bongocero etc. but I'm just an all-around Latin music nut :)

I think the same way as you Miguel, to be consider a Percussionist (Latin Percussionist Exactly) these are a most: Congas, Bongos, Timbales, Tambora and all other minor percussion.
I am getting there with the Congas, Timbales and Bongos but I have not had anyone to teach me Tambora and Guira yet. I am also starting to learn Drum Set and Bata that are always a plus.
Bata should be a most for any Rumbero just my opinion.

I want to take this opportunity to wish to all the members of CP Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !


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Re: Rumbero vs Conguero - Which describes your style?

Postby Miguel7 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:30 am

I'd be interested to learn exactly what instruments are used in Rumba and what they do. I can play the guaguancó on congas and bongos but that's more of the Puerto Rican way, the kind that fits into salsa in 3-2 clave. So in my recordings with guaguancó I've always included timbal playing 3-2 cáscara/mambo bell and piano doing a 3-2 montuno... but what exactly does rumba sound like in comparison?
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Re: Rumbero vs Conguero - Which describes your style?

Postby Anonimo » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:58 am

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR
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Re: Rumbero vs Conguero - Which describes your style?

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:42 pm

Miguel7 wrote:I'd be interested to learn exactly what instruments are used in Rumba and what they do. I can play the guaguancó on congas and bongos but that's more of the Puerto Rican way, the kind that fits into salsa in 3-2 clave. So in my recordings with guaguancó I've always included timbal playing 3-2 cáscara/mambo bell and piano doing a 3-2 montuno... but what exactly does rumba sound like in comparison?


I wrote a few articles on this subject a while back that you might find interesting.
.
http://rumbainstruments.blogspot.com/20 ... rumba.html

Partly for my blog and partly for the search engines I am going to list some of the instruments used in a rumba ensemble.

Congas / Conga / Tumbadora / Tumbadoras (go by many names, here are a few): Requinto, Quinto, Conga, Tumba, Tumbadora Salidor, Tres Dos, Tres Golpes. These are the conga drums, sometimes named for their size, their role, or the part they play in the rhythm.

Bata drums: these are being used in modern rumba (batarumba) they are the Iya, Itotole and the Okonkolo

Cajon / Cajons: wooden boxes of different shapes and sizes.

Bell / Bells: Campana, Cencerro (Spanish terms) and the Guataca which is a hoe blade.

Clave / Claves.

Guagua, Gua-gua, Cata, Pallitos: a peice of bamboo with a slit or holes played with sticks, sometimes a box played with spoons.

Shakers: usually a Shekere which is a gourd with beads on it, also sometimes Maracas or Marugas. Sometimes Nkembi are used, they are little shakers strapped to the wrists, usually of a drum player.

So I've made a few of these instruments and am looking forward to making more.


http://rumbainstruments.blogspot.com/20 ... rumba.html

Rumba is an improvisational music, much like Jazz and Blues. Just like Jazz and Blues, Rumba has it’s own structure regarding how the instruments and vocals improvise, when the improvisation occurs and which instruments improvise.

Instruments that do not improvise in Rumba.

1. Claves.
2. Palitos.
3. Shekere.
4. Chorus (Coro).
5. Bell (La Campana).


Instruments that improvise in rumba

1. Lead singer (Gallo).
2. Quinto.
3. Tres Dos.
4. Tumba.


Instruments that do not improvise in Rumba.

Claves, palitos, la campana and the shekere are the timekeepers in a rumba. They repeat a non-changing pattern throughout the length of the song or rhythm, or at least they should. Which pattern depends on the rhythm. The exception is the shekere. The shekere can begin playing on just the first beat of the song including the pickup just before the beat, then add the third beat, playing on the one and the three. Finally the shekere can progress to playing all four beats and their pick up strokes in the montuno or upbeat portion of the song. A further exception to this occurs sometimes in Rumba Columbia, which is a 6/8 rhythm. Sometimes an adept shekere player may adapt a 6/8 shekere pattern used for guiro or bembe.

The chorus or coro, is typically set by the gallo (lead singer). I’m not a gallo myself, but I’ve been told the gallo chooses the coro based upon a few things. One is the coro goes with the song he is singing, another is the amount of time he wants or needs to make up improvisational verses between repetitions of the coro and lastly is to determine the overall energy or groove of the song.

Instruments that improvise in Rumba.

The gallo not only sings a composed song, but they also improvise lyrics and sounds. I know of two areas where the gallo improvises lyrics. The first is the gallo singing by himself with the percussion, either an improvised extension of a composed song, or possibly be the whole song itself being improvised. Secondly, the gallo begins a section of call and response improvisations with the coro. The gallo calls an improvised refrain of a determined length, followed by a set coro response of a determined length.

The quinto is probably the most apparent improviser. On rhythm charts you often see the quinto part described as free. However, the quinto is not really free to improvise like a jazz soloists, it has guidelines. I think a better description for the quinto would be responding instead of improvising. The quinto responds. The quinto will play differently depending on what is happening in the song. When the singer is singing the quinto plays so as not to play over the singer. When it is just percussion playing the quinto player should leave room for the other drums to to be heard. When there is a dancer or dancers the quinto is meant to mark their steps and interact with them. Finally, when the gallo cries out “Quinto!”, it is time for the quinto to play a solo with passion and afinique.

The tres dos (middle drum) and the tumba (low drum) also improvise. However they also maintain the melody of the song and the groove. The extent of improvisation versus playing straight depends on the musicians and their talent and creativity. Playing the whole rhythm totally straight can feel a little stiff, however too much improvisation can lead to overplaying; playing over the singer and losing the groove and melody. When and how much to improvise is an art. Typically in a rumba the improvisations between these two drums takes the form of call and response: one drum initiates with an improvisation and the other one responds. However a drum is free to not respond or improvise alone as well.

So improvisation in Rumba is different than it is for other great improvisational musics, like Jazz for example. In rumba some instruments improvise and others do not. Furthermore, in Rumba all the improvising instruments improvise at the same time, they don’t take turns doing improvised solos. However there are guidelines and limits to the extent and nature of each instruments improvisation. It is this tension of the instruments shifting between improvised and set rhythms in Rumba that makes it such a dynamic and emotionally charged music.
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Re:

Postby Quinto Governor II » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:38 pm

Chupacabra wrote:Hmmm...This is the only vote I've encountered in a long time in which I'm not entitled!

By this I mean there aren't any answers that I can really include myself in. What percussionist/rumbero. etc. hasn't indulged themselves in just blasting away at their instrument just to vent or experiment and "Just make some noise, man"? Play some conga licks to some old Allman Bros. Band songs, or Led Zep, perhaps?

From the previous replies in this thread I can't really call myself a percussionist at this point.

Anyway I could blah-blah forever but my basic point is there should be a choice for "Wanna-be"!
When I get together with the group I practise with on Saturdays it is Rumba and Bembe that we are trying to learn. Believe me, what we cough up ain't anything near the real thing! When we do get into a groove it is a wonderful thing though. Isn't that what it's all about?




Edited By Chupacabra on 1202614168



I feel the same way. I lack in all trades of percusion, therefore; I'm a master of none. On the conversation about the relationship between the drummer and dancer, I'm of the opinion that the quinto player in rumba, actually interacts more with the singer than the dancer, contrary to what we are taught. There is no real rumba here so its really not an issue for me, as we almost never play for a rumba dancer. I try to copy the style of playing that I hear on recordings. This way of playing is more spare than the way most of the guys I've meet that can play rumba to some degree. Their way of playing seems to be influenced by salsa soloing, and tends to have less space in it. They are good at this way of playing and it works in the context of what we are playing because we do very little singing when we play. The longer phrases adds a melodic element that is otherwise missing.
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Re: Rumbero vs Conguero - Which describes your style?

Postby congamyk » Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:18 pm

bongosnotbombs wrote:
Miguel7 wrote:I'd be interested to learn exactly what instruments are used in Rumba and what they do. I can play the guaguancó on congas and bongos but that's more of the Puerto Rican way, the kind that fits into salsa in 3-2 clave. So in my recordings with guaguancó I've always included timbal playing 3-2 cáscara/mambo bell and piano doing a 3-2 montuno... but what exactly does rumba sound like in comparison?


I wrote a few articles on this subject a while back that you might find interesting.
.
http://rumbainstruments.blogspot.com/20 ... rumba.html


This is correct.
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Re: Rumbero vs Conguero - Which describes your style?

Postby jorge » Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:18 pm

Yes. Notice that bongo, timbales, bombo, guiro, bass, tres, piano, horns, trap drums and vibes are not among the instruments typically used for rumba. Although in some exceptional circumstances each of those has been used, the typical folkloric rumba really only uses voice, claves, palitos (or spoons) /cata, quinto, tres dos, tumba, chequere and maybe cajon. In more modern Cuban rumba, there is a trend away from congas toward cajones, some groups have completely eliminated congas or maybe just have a quinto or tres dos. In the past 50 years, bongo has been only very rarely used in rumba. Few bongoceros know how to play effective quinto on bongo, responding to the dancers, leaving room for the singers, and giving a real rumba feel to the song.

I think we have some confusion here about what we mean by rumba. There have been many different definitions of rumba over the past few generations, even including bolero- or son-like orquestrations with many of the above instruments, but these definitions of rumba are really commercializations that are only loosely related to the folkloric rumba. Many songs of Latin bands in the 1950s - 80s were originally Cuban rumba songs, adapted and arranged for orchestra and called salsa. These arrangements often had some very real musical creativity in NYC and elsewhere but frequently with no royalties paid (or even credit given) to the original authors in Cuba.

Here is a clip of a performance of rumba by Los Papines, one of the original groups to record folkloric rumba in La Habana in the 1950s. One of the few rumba groups to add timbal (bombo), although this is not typical in rumba.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947zU18q1E0&feature=related

This is less of a performance and more of a rumba, Los Muñequitos playing a rumba columbia (Matanzas style) in the street in Matanzas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQWxwd5t710&feature=related

This is even more of a rumba and less of a performance. First rumba columbia on the docks, and at the end a real rumba in Matanzas, clave, cata, lots of people singing coro, cajones with maybe one or two drums, most people dancing, a joyous party atmosphere. Now we are really talking rumba.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMR68m8Uu9M&NR=1

Here is a clip of one of the early pioneer groups in the modern rumba, Yoruba Andabo from 1990. This is a performance of folkloric rumba in La Habana.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtqWI5wEfNI&feature=related

And here is where the younger generation in Cuba is taking the rumba, yet another higher level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWyCGU6UoBE&feature=related
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