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Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:04 pm**

A little frustrated, but working on it. I've worked on all types of slap tactics and while I have a respectable slap, some other percussionists I know seem to just gunshot off the congas. And I undoubtedly practice more than they do (I practice daily).

I'm wondering if I'm doing the technique wrong.

Does anyone have a YouTube video that shows the motion of a good slap. As far as I know, the motion is one that resembles "slapping the hand of a child", as if they did something wrong. The impact point is the tip of the fingers, as opposed to the first joint of the fingers, where the open tone should be aimed. There's a slight pullback too.

Maybe I can record my slap and then show it to you guys.

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:49 pm**

Hey Firebrand - I was looking just about the same thing for the same reasons a few months back. I searched and found lots folks showing slaps of various degrees of goodness but not much in the way of any kind of real breakdown. The only thing I found that fit that bill was a youtube video by one of our own congaplace guys - derbeno - it looks like basics lesson he's giving a student and may be too basic (it sounds like you are a pretty experianced player) - but what is great is he actually explains and demonstrates the mechanics of the motion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7fA8abimD0

Its about a minute 20 into the lesson.

Most videos are: "this is a closed slap [Bang] - this is an open slap [bang]."

Now since then I've gotten the Tomas Cruz books and rudiments section has been great for this purpose [I've got a whole new outlook on open slaps now]. This is also a great way to explore slaps.

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:31 pm**

thank you for your answers. I was wondering if the Tomas Cruz videos would help on that.

The truth of the matter is that I'm a very committed percussionist (mostly specializing in drumset and congas) and, because I come from a more "trained" school of music practice, my technique, speed, vocabulary, and application of music on congas tends to be more advanced then your regular "rumbero" type, who learned in traditional Afro-Cuban/Puerto Rican settings.

But...try as I might...there is one thing that always eludes me. While I get respect for my speed, ideas, independence techniques, I still always feel inferior to some of the rumbero types who seem to be able to slap a gunshot out of congas, even with the quinto not so tight/highly pitched. Clearly, there is something they have attained that I have not, and I'm trying to find the key to it. Learning rhythms comes easier to me because of my independence of arms and rudimental training on drums, but what I can't seem to recreate as good as some of the congueros I respect are the slaps. To most audience members, my slap is actually impressive. But....among musicians, I know I'm out of my league (in the slap department) with some other congueros.

I will look at the video you gave me and look into the Tomas Cruz books/videos. Thank you!

Posted: **Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:06 am**

Maybe it's too much technique and not enough fire and passion! I think the exression is "con sabor!"
...and I mean this seriously, technique without feeling only goes so far.
I haven't seen your playing and please don't take this personally..
I just know my favorite quinto player here in SF has that gunshot slap you describe. There are other more technical players than him, but with his quinto he brings a fire that the more technical guys can't match.

His name is Cecil, there are a few guys here that know who I'm talking about.

Posted: **Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:07 am**

I read somewhere once (possibly from a quote by Armando Perazza) that they say you can tell the pain a man has endured in his life from his slap on the conga, I think the word they used for it was 'duende'. Anyone else read that quote ? It was a while ago now so I'm not sure of the details but to me it actually makes sense, while not being much help in regards your post !

Barrie

Posted: **Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:09 am**

a simultanious post along very similar lines bnb !

Posted: **Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:18 am**

Yeah, further reflection on this subject brings me to a lesson a Cuban player around here gave me..

he described the slap technique as having a difference among Cuban players and American ones.

The way he demonstrated for me was to press the drum head with one hand and with the slapping hand bring the hand closer to the rim of the conga.

Most people slap with the hands pointed in like this /\.
You know, the same orientation as playing open tones.

So this "cuban" way was with the hands more like this /_ .
With the / pressing the drum and the _ close to the edge
of the conga and closer, almost parallel to the body.

In books and videos it is "bad" technique, because you change your hand position, slows you down, whatever..

However it does create a more crackling slap for sure...and this Cuban guy is a pretty good player.

To give it some credibility, Carlos Aldama uses this technique.

Try it, "con sabor!"

Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1203987725

Posted: **Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:19 am**

from wikepedia -

Federico García Lorca first developed the concept of Duende in a lecture he gave in La Habana in 1930.

There would appear to be something vaguely pagan and even demonic about Duende. Duende is a spirit of art, much the opposite of the Muse.

Where the Muse brings golden inspiration, Duende brings blood. The Muse speaks of life, yet Duende sings of death. Duende is not inspiration, Duende is a struggle, a dark force, having very little to do with outer beauty, a struggle present in the artist's soul, the struggle of knowing that death is imminent. It is this knowledge of death that awaits and the despair that stems from it that produce Duende, and Duende will then color the artist's work with gut-wrenching authenticity, painful hues and tones that produce strong, vibrant art.

Posted: **Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:28 am**

taikonoatama wrote:
bongosnotbombs wrote:His name is Cecil, there are a few guys here that know who I'm talking about.

I played with Cecil yesterday in Berkeley all afternoon - he got a new Isla canoewood quinto last week with a crazy-thick skin and this was his first chance to air it properly. He hadn't wanted a skin that thick, but that's the way it came - must be 3/8" thick. Yeah, the dude can seriously lay it down - and great slaps, to be sure. And that Isla sounded killer, it must be said, even with that wavy crown

Sorry I missed it, that guy really rocks the quinto, and so humble too.

Posted: **Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:06 am**

bongosnotbombs wrote:The way he demonstrated for me was to press the drum head with one hand and with the slapping hand bring the hand closer to the rim of the conga.

Most people slap with the hands pointed in like this /\.
You know, the same orientation as playing open tones.

So this "cuban" way was with the hands more like this /_ .
With the / pressing the drum and the _ close to the edge
of the conga and closer, almost parallel to the body.

In books and videos it is "bad" technique, because you change your hand position, slows you down, whatever..

This is pretty much the technique of one kind of slap (closed rumba slap) I I learned in Cuba from Sandalio 'el Macho' Calderon.

When I first heard his slap I was amazed at the volume, depth and crispness he was getting by using this technique on his old congas. It was only after careful study of his movements and a lot of practice over a month or so that I began to get the correct sound using this technique.

There is a certain trick to getting it.
For example how do you teach someone to whistle?
You can demonstrate it or you can say, 'You form your lips and mouth like this', but until they do it and perhaps stumble across the right technique thru trial and error only then do they finally get it.

I think there is no substitute for learning from a master or at least someone very accomplished who can give you feedback along the way.

People who say it's 'bad' technique would change their mind if they saw and heard the way my Cuban teacher played it (I would've said the same before I went to Cuba). In the right context it is perfect for achieving slaps that really cut through and punctuate the rhythm.

Posted: **Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:13 pm**

Truth to tell ... what you describe a cuban slap is exactly the slap I was taught by a dude 25 + years ago and was the only slap I knew up till 4 or 5 years ago.

I still use it, but it does become a habit and does limit you in some repects - mainly having to always needing to have that other hand on the skin for the slap. On the other hand it still is the most like a gunshot slap I have in my bag of tools (maybe a more of a cap gun) but my other slaps are getting closer.

Another fun thing with that technique is holding your hand cupped so that the edge of the hand does the muting (makes a shape like a little Sydney opera house on the drum) and moving it from the edge to the middle while slapping. You get a fair serious of rising or falling tones (depending on which direction you are giong) - kind of like the old elbow on drum thing but with way less effort .

Posted: **Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:34 pm**

Taiko, 3/8" thick, what kind of skin is that ? An Elephant or a Rhino skin ? ???

Posted: **Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:26 pm**

3/8" ? Man, that´s 1 centimeter if I am not wrong.
I wonder about the tonal qualities of this ... BLUE WHALE skin :laugh:

Posted: **Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:44 am**

I just returned from a trip down to Isla Percussions, and all I have to say is that slaps are very easy to achieve on Mario's drums! Although, consistency was difficult for me personally, due to not having practiced the one-handed slap technique. But compared to my LP's with watter buffalo skins, there was no comparison for slaps. On my LP's, I am completely unable to get a crisp one-handed slap-- I have to use a two-handed technique (one hand mutes the skin while the other slaps). The Isla's were almost effortless to achieve a crisp slap with one hand. I believe the skins on his were both kip (small drum like requinto) and cow (conga and tumba).

I did, however, notice that my own personal playing style has been developed while working with LP's... and I can honestly say that the thin waterbuffalo skins are making it easy for me to achieve the patterns that I do now.... and I simply could not play those patterns on the Isla's with the thick skins. I just could not get the tones out that I was attempting to do with the strokes that I have developed for my LP's.

I think this could underscore the "fact" that different types of drums/skins can help facilitate different types of music. An obvious statement, perhaps-- but nevertheless... I think different styles of music will call for different types of drums, skins, and playing techniques. I do not believe that there is a one-conga-fits-all-types-of-music conga! So perhaps those looking for best results for a certain type of music or playing technique ought to shop for the drums that will facilitate that! I could tell that the Isla drums were PERFECT for what they were designed for (I think afro-cuban mainly).

Posted: **Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:31 am**

So Whopbamboom which sounds were easier on LP thin skins?
I'd think that it would be the other way round - one handed slaps easier on thin skins, and good open tones on thick skins?

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