tuning

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Re: tuning

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:53 am

If there was a required tuning for congas wouldn't conga rhythms be written to
reflect that as timpani music is? With the tumba written on the G line, conga on C, etc?

I can't think of a single reason why a conga would ever need to be tuned
to a certain pitch like G for example. What happens when the next song
is played in a different key?

John Santos gave that very explanation in a lecture I attended when he was asked
a similar question about tuning.
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Re: tuning

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:12 am

Those pictures uses the Solfege syllables.

For example as in the photo, indicated in bold.
Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si

Good luck with it. :roll:
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Re: tuning

Postby vinnieludovico » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:16 am

Check out Anga playing Theolonius Monk's "Round Midnight" on Echu Mingua(his last recording)He has his congas tuned to recreate Monk's melody.Truly awsome !
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Re: tuning

Postby umannyt » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:44 am

bongosnotbombs wrote:If there was a required tuning for congas wouldn't conga rhythms be written to
reflect that as timpani music is? With the tumba written on the G line, conga on C, etc?


bongosnotbombs,

First of all, whoever said that there's required tuning for congas? Where in what I wrote did you read that? I made it very specific in my last response to taikonoatama that all the tunings I mentioned are "suggested" (not required) general tunings.

bongosnotbombs wrote:I can't think of a single reason why a conga would ever need to be tuned to a certain pitch like G for example.


I'll give you one: Raul Rekow, current conguero of Santana, tunes his quinto to a "D". Again, not as a requirement but as a harmonic preference. Why? Because many of Santana's music begin in the key of "D" or "Dm". My cover band plays, among many others, Santana music. I like my congas (I use up to 4) to sound like Raul Rekow's. Therefore, I tune my quinto to a "D" as well.

Here are a few more other reasons: Sue Hadjopolous (one-time percussionist for Joe Jackson Band), Scott Crago (substitute drummer/percussionist for The Eagles), conguero for Malo, conguero for Tower Of Power, etc. I've listened and studied many of the songs that had them and they all seem to have their high drum tuned to either a "C" or a "D". In addition, they all have at least a lower drum that's tuned a 4th or 5th below.

bongosnotbombs wrote:What happens when the next song is played in a different key?


Then your keep tuning as they are. It's unreal and ridiculous for the rest of the band to expect you to change the tuning of your congas to match the key of each song. The rest of the band knows and understands that the purpose of congas is more to add rhythm rather than melody to a song, unlike with guitars, bass, keyboards and horns which carry several full scales of notes.

It's exactly the same as with kit drums. The components of kit drums are tuned to certain pitches/keys. In fact, DW marks the specific key that a drum is suggested to be tuned inside its shell. Now, no one expects drums' tuning to be changed just because the next song is played in a different key, right? Again, it's unreal and ridiculous.

Note that I'm talking mainly from the genres of music that I and my bands play: Pop, Disco, R&B, Funk, Rock (including Latin Rock) and even some Jazz (Fusion). These genres evidently have different traditions as far as conga tuning is concerned than those for folkloric Afro-Cuban music. To insist that one follow the other's tradition and vice-versa is myopic thinking.

Now, I wonder how Johnny Conga tuned his congas when he used to play with Sergio Mendes & Brazil '77 and when he sessioned for several famous pop, disco or R&B artists for many years.

How about our Salsa-playing brothers and sisters on this forum? How do you guys tune your congas? Just curious.
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Re: tuning

Postby umannyt » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:53 am

bongosnotbombs wrote:Those pictures uses the Solfege syllables.

For example as in the photo, indicated in bold.
Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si

Good luck with it. :roll:

bongosnotbombs,

No problem translating these into their alphabetical key equivalents: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, etc. (including their corresponding flats and sharps) to a pitch pipe, digital tuner or keyboard.
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Re: tuning

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:06 am

umannyt wrote:
bongosnotbombs wrote:Those pictures uses the Solfege syllables.

For example as in the photo, indicated in bold.
Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si

Good luck with it. :roll:

bongosnotbombs,

No problem translating these into their alphabetical key equivalents: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, etc. (including their corresponding flats and sharps) to a pitch pipe, digital tuner or keyboard.

That's assuming a fixed Do. They may be using a movable Do and thus be indicating relative pitch.
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Re: tuning

Postby Tonio » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:16 am

I'm not going to argue wether you should tune to a pitch or not. I just use each drum to its sweet spot.
reasons:
1. best for the drum's volume and tone
2. best wear n tear on my hands
3. what fits the venue
In different genre's, I amy use different tuning or different drums while keeping them in the sweet spot.

e.g.
*funk, R&B- most likely use my Lp's crank up the quinto that still has some resonance and not die and sound like paper. HOWEVER, I an still use my Isla set for a old school vibe.
* Latin jazz- either my LP Valje's or Moperc's with an Isla conga or LP Valje quinto depending on tunes in question,
*rumba- Isla or Moperc, in a crunch any -really depends on the caliber at hand.
* rock, pop- LP's, LP Valje whatever-depends on the tunes, and band situation.

In any case I look at the tunes , band set up , and venue to decide. I always try to keep the drums in the sweet spot, and choose my equipment accordingly.

For an example, I have followed Raul Rekow extensively, and his tuning has changed over the years. If you study the venue, you will see he changed due to what was needed or his personal specifications. Perhaps even personal style is a deciding factor of the changes also.

Personally I think the tuning between each drum is more important the individual tuning.

For the OP, that appears to be a newbie ,the best i could recommend is to listen to the genre at hand and learn the tunings used, and focus on getting the performance down more than minute tuning regimens.

just my $.02.

T
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Re: tuning

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:16 am

bongosnotbombs,

First of all, whoever said that there's required tuning for congas? Where in what I wrote did you read that? I made it very specific in my last response to taikonoatama that all the tunings I mentioned are "suggested" (not required) general tunings.


No one said there was a required tuning, and I didn't read it anywhere.
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Re: tuning

Postby umannyt » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:19 am

bongosnotbombs wrote:That's assuming a fixed Do. They may be using a movable Do and this be indicating relative pitch.

For me, there's no sense making it any more complicated. I'll keep it simple. I'll assume that it's a fixed Do. I have no choice. I'm constrained by my pitch pipe anyway.
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Re: tuning

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:46 am

umannyt wrote:For me, there's no sense making it any more complicated. I'll keep it simple. I'll assume that it's a fixed Do. I have no choice. I'm constrained by my pitch pipe anyway.


You are probably correct in that assumption, otherwise they probably would have
written the lowes drum as "Do", and the other drums written as relative intervals to
that.

So assuming a fixed "Do" as a "C", that would make the congas in the picture,
pitched like this.
file.jpg

A guitar only has to tune 6 strings, this poor guy has to tune 35 lugs!

I guess for those of us that have sat around while the sax adjusts his mouthpiece,
and the guitarist fiddles with his knobs and amp, now we can gave our revenge:

"Hey piano, can I get and "F"? I think my quinto is a little sharp."
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Re: tuning

Postby umannyt » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:54 am

I thought I'd share the following:

Quote from a page from Latin Rhythm Traders' website (http://www.latinrhythmtraders.com/html/congatuning.html):

"Legendary Conguero, Carlos "Patato" Valdes, signature conga tuning was always "F", "G", "Bflat", with the Quinto a "C", or occasionally, he'd coax it up to a "D"."

Also from the same page is this illustration below of the "Conga Tuning Guide from Gon Bops" taken from Gon Bops' 2007 Catalog. Sorry, the text appears blurry even after you click on the photo 1 time. But, if you click on it 1 more time (2 clicks), the text should become readable.
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Re: tuning

Postby umannyt » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:11 am

bongosnotbombs wrote:A guitar only has to tune 6 strings, this poor guy has to tune 35 lugs!

One more reason to try synthetic skins as many pros have done--for live gigs that is and not necessarily for studio recording.

bongosnotbombs wrote:I guess for those of us that have sat around while the sax adjusts his mouthpiece,
and the guitarist fiddles with his knobs and amp, now we can gave our revenge:

"Hey piano, can I get and "F"? I think my quinto is a little sharp."

LOL!!!
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