Technique on new congas question

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Re: Technique on new congas question

Postby CongaDog » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:29 am

I am also relatively new to congas and have a set of Islas. My technique needed to be adjusted to avoid hitting my palms on the rims. More playing over the top. No surprise that my sound was better. However, I still thought I needed to lower the rims. Sent an email to Mario about what to do. (My teacher had recommended tightening the lugs a little each day. As a result the rims were starting to bend and this did not seem right. In general, it seems to me that my drums sound better with less tension on them rather than more.) Mario's response to me was as follows.
Stop!!! Don't do that!!!! I'm glad you wrote me. Look, you must first take the heads off. Next you lay them down on the ground like a bowl. Next you put water in them. Let them sit like that for about two hours. The water should come up to the edge. Then put the heads back on the drums a tighten them just above where you want the rims to be when you play. Don't over do it. Then let the skins dry under a fan for about four days. They will seem dry but they won't be in the inside. Four days under a fan or air conditioned room
.

I have not posted a comment on this forum before. But have been reading the posts for quite a while. My decision to buy the Islas was heavily based on comments I read here. The dialogue was very helpful to me.
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Re: Technique on new congas question

Postby deerskins » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:01 am

Dude,
You skins are just fine, leave em and play em. They will go down.
My drums from Mario came just like that and now they are down plenty.
Also, I have mounted plenty of skins, they always come down, I 'usually' don't detune.

My belief is that, mounting high is NOT a 'new style' or 'new school' method. It just might seem this way in America.
Perhaps the people that are doing this are just hip to a different kind of conga culture.
Perhaps, they have been to plenty of rumbas and to Cuba and have seen that it is just easier and more fun to start high and leave em tight.

Detune if you like, but I don't...except for a cranked quinto or requinto.
Yeah sure, it makes your skins last longer, better on the tubs and the hardware....blah, blah, blah.
If you want to spend all your time tuning up and down and worrying about all that stuff, go for it.
But, from my experience, it ain't worth the time. Play em and have fun and your drums will last for the rest of your life.
Sure, you will have to put new skins on some time, but I have seen skins last for 30+ years.
Look, some people here say 'I always tune down 2 full turns'. Others say different...
But, in relation to what? I keep my drums fairly low to start with, so, maybe when they back theirs 2 turns, they might still be higher than where mine were to start...you see?

Also, Cubans don't detune their drums, at least the ones I was hanging out with down there. I know, I know, but their drums are all beat up. Yeah, but it is not because of tuning, it is because of the way they use them. There drums get used A LOT, and, the way they transport them is tough on them...bicycles, carrying on the street, stacking in cars, etc.

Let's look at other drums...bata...djembe.
These drums don't get detuned...no way.
Actually, djembes are really, really tight and stay that way.
Sure, they have thinner skins, and sure, thick skinned djembes that are super cranked sometimes warp.
Then, when a new skin is put on, the spine is put on the other way to help it warp back.

Well, the debate can go either way.
I have no doubt that mounting a little lower to start and detuning will treat your drum more gently and if you people that do that wish to do so, then enjoy. But for me, I like to sit down and play anytime I want, any day I want, for 5 minutes, 20 minutes or 2 hours. And, having to tune up and down every single time would reduce my ability to have that freedom and my quality of life. So, for me, I just keep them where I want them (granted, this may be lower tuned than many like, but that's old school style). With the exception of when I gig and I tend to tune up a little more on the quinto. Another exception would be when cranking a quinto or requinto for rumba...even though the Cubans don't tune down, I still do it because a thick skinned quinto can be insanely tight for rumba.

End of the day, have fun, keep the crowns level, keep the threads lubed and play em!

p.s. I do tune my drums up or down and the weather changes. Typically, in the winter, I might have to tune down a little and summer time, up. Also, minor adjustments to keep the right tone. In addition, I usually don't crank a djembe when heading into winter, the skin can pop as the airs drys out. So, I wait until Spring to 'pull' my djembe super tight (and always have a spare ready to go).

p.s.s. when I am first tightening or mounting, I don't worry so much about equal tension, I just make sure the crowns are equal all the way around. Then, I tighten evenly, the same amount of turns. Sure, some lugs will be tighter than others, but the skins will stretch accordingly and it will be just fine and your crown will be nice and even.
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Re: Technique on new congas question

Postby jorge » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:02 am

Cadenza wrote:I agree with BMac that the milky white is a sign of over tensioning the drum, absolutely.

It certainly can be, but not necessarily. The "milky white" opaque color of a skin that started out translucent can mean a couple of things. Assuming you start out with a translucent skin, one way you can get that opaque appearance is by stretching the wet skin until it becomes opaque. Try stretching an offcut of wet skin you just mounted, you will see it turn opaque. When putting on a new skin, this often happens first at the wettest part, where the skin is doubled over between the bearing edge and the flesh hoop, in an area that is not visible unless you take the skin off. Keep tightening the wet skin and, if it doesn't rip first, it gets opaque at the bearing edge, then the whole surface of the skin. The other way a skin can get opaque is by playing it. Almost all of the skins I have put on translucent eventually become opaque in spots then the whole skin becomes a light yellowish tan color. This can take months or years, and on very thick skins may only happen in spots. Often the fatal tear at the end of the skin's life happens at the bearing edge or between the bearing edge and the flesh hoop, in an area that had been overstretched while wet. I think at a microscopic structural level, the opaque appearance happens when the network of fibrils that make up the skin starts to pull apart. This weakens the skin, reduces its stiffness, makes it thinner, lowers the rim, and makes the skin sound more mellow, less ringy, often better. If it comes from playing, this happens more on the playing surface of the skin and not in the high tension area between the bearing edge and the flesh hoop, so it does not affect the life of the skin. If this comes from overtightening when wet, it happens preferentially in the high tension areas and does affect the life of the skin. Other than that, I suspect that the effect of the stretching and opaque appearance on the sound of the skin does not depend on how it happened.
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Re: Technique on new congas question

Postby deerskins » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:43 pm

I have 'over stretched' skins when mounting before. Specifically on a quinto because I thought the bearing edge was too high. It turned this milky white color that you describe. Personally, I thought this skin lacked the warm qualities that I usually hear and became quite lifeless...kind of tinny, ringy and flat. I think it is much better, if possibly, to let the skin drop over time by keeping the drum tensioned and by playing it...
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Re: Technique on new congas question

Postby BMac » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:45 pm

It seems that at least two schools of thought have come to this discussion.

In the one school, if you typically don't detune your skins, you can expect skins to stretch over time and shallow initial mounting is eventually addressed by the stretching.

In the second school, if you tune up and down as I do, then the initial mounting is preferred as comfortable on day one, given that detuning provides longer stability and the initial mounting represents a longer term picture.

I am firmly in the second school. I don't consider tuning an inconvenience. I carry a dedicated wrench for congas and I periodically clean and grease the threads of the lugs so that a general relationship between torque and surface tension is preserved for rough tuning (and then last stage tuning by ear by thumping a thumb above each lug and tightening the lowest note ... repeat as desired or until the noise in the room overcomes your ability to distinguish slight tone differences if other musicians are tuning or playing). I leave a few unpopped "diamonds" in the weave of my djembe. That way, whenever I play it, as the tuning reduces in response to my playing, I can just pull the serpentine cord to pop a few diamonds and I'm tuned again. I un-pop the diamonds when I'm done ... feeding and distributing the serpentine cord back into the weave. I'm good at it, so it happens quickly. Thus, as I am in the second school, at least I am consistent. I would not dream of attending a conga playing session without a wrench, nor would I fail to tune my drum to the occasion according other instruments and other considerations. Modern congas are tunable instruments. So I tune mine when I play, and I loosen them when they rest. A typical playing session with friends lasts two or more hours of playing time, spread over four hours or more including a meal. Breaks occur for those who smoke, perhaps a beer is opened, somebody's gotta light the grill, you get the idea. I don't at all mind that I'm turning a few hex nuts over the course of the evening in the company of friends as the bassist tunes his instrument and the DJ's show off the latest sounds they want to work into the mix. Even gigs have breaks. I've never missed the time I spend tuning nor considered it anything but a part of the playing experience.

I am detail oriented about my instruments ... and I'm cool with that.

My neighbor takes the time to wash his bright yellow Mustang every weekend. I take the time to care for my instruments.

Cheers,
BMac
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Re: Technique on new congas question

Postby CongaTick » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:02 pm

I don't tune up/down during breaks, only before gig and after. Religiously.
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