I believe that the Habaneros also have their own story about how that came about.
What are you referring to, that the Matanceros played things backward?
jorge wrote:That rhythmic figure seems to have been a popular salidor floreo in Matanzas guaguanco before it caught on in La Habana and became part of the guarapachangueo.
Thomas, looks like you are in luck and the Rumboleros CD is available again.
jorge wrote: I hear the accents in the guarapachangueo and the 50s guaguanco Matancero both on the first beat of clave. In many guarapachangueos (not all) the 4 bass strokes end on an accent that is opposite (1 measure after) the main tres dos golpe, ie the last bass stroke is on the first beat of clave. This figure is usually played on the tres dos cajon. Here is an example Mark Sanders sent me, Los Ibellis Junior with the child prodigy (now a few years older) Didier on quinto and singing gallo, doing Lamento Esclavo,. . .
In much of the guaguanco Matancero from the 50s I have have heard, usually with El Goyo (Diaz) on tumbador, the floreo he plays puts the accented muffled tone (presionado) on the first beat of clave, opposite (1 measure after) the golpe of the seis por ocho part. Occasionally you will hear the tumbador accent played on top of the golpe, but usually it is answering it on the opposite downbeat. Neither of these accents would be considered crossing the clave, they are call and response patterns that make the melody of the guaguanco.
davidpenalosa wrote:... that video clip sounds like just a plain guaguancó melody (using a cajón) to me. Do the distinct rides make it a guarapachangeo?
davidpenalosa wrote:I'm sure you know this, but it's worth mentioning for the other readers of this thread that in the cases where the Muñequitos tumbador accent is played on top of the golpe, it is the golpe that has moved (sounded on the three-side), not the tumba.
davidpenalosa wrote:the tumba variations led into the segundo, not answering the segundo.
davidpenalosa wrote:Thomas Altmann wrote:What about Rumba Tonada? Which type of rumba is "Cuando de Africa salí" by Gregorio Hernández "El Goyo" on the "La Rumba es Cubana" CD? Thomas
One last thing, Miguel Bernal taught guarapachangeo in his guaguancó class last week. When asked about it, Miguel said that guarapachangeo is modern guaguancó.
-David
jorge wrote:Roberthelpus that is the new style guaguanco / guarapachangueo the younger generation is playing now in Cuba. Don't thank me, thank Mark Sanders who sent me the clip, I had not seen that one before.
jorge wrote: I don't remember ever hearing Agustin play the golpe on the 3 side, but I could have missed it. Do you know of an example?
davidpenalosa wrote:the tumba variations led into the segundo, not answering the segundo.
jorge wrote:I am not sure how you see leading into the segundo and answering the segundo being different, since the rhythm is ongoing and answering one measure of the segundo in the next measure could sound like leading up to the segundo in the third measure.
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