call & response

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call & response

Postby PPurityofSinNN » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:20 am

does anybody have any scores of examples of call and response conversation in rumba??
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Re: call & response

Postby davidpenalosa » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:09 am

Hi,
I have an article I wrote for Latin Percussionist about ten years ago, concerning a three-drum conversation in guaguancó spanning three claves. Contact me privately and I'll email it to you.
-David
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Re: call & response

Postby ABAKUA » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:38 am

David, you are an endless wealth of knowledge and information!

Here is a nice clip which shows a beautiful relationship of call & response in modern rumba by Adonis Calderon and part of his crew.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqkg7FasvQg
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Re: call & response

Postby windhorse » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:35 pm

Something I've been taught to do:
When the tumba (Salidor) does something out of it's normal pattern, the segundo (Tres Dos) follows.
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Re: call & response

Postby davidpenalosa » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:59 pm

A few observations about segundo and tumba (salidor) variations in the Matanzas-style guaguancó. The cool thing about the Matanzas-style guaguancó (1950s-80s) is that the two supportive drums can converse without stepping on each other. Reflecting their respective roles within the composite melody, as a general rule, the segundo plays onbeat variations and the tumba plays offbeat and cross-beat variations. Even in the early days, the tumba in Los Muñequitos played offbeat and cross-beat variations spanning more than a clave cycle. In other words, the tumba plays phrases that are similar to the quinto, only the points of beginning and ending for each drum are different.

On "Omelé" (Los Muñequitos) you can hear the quinto begin crossing at 2: 09. The quinto is playing a repeating pattern of slap-slap-tone, which groups the duple pulses in sets of three, thus contradicting, or crossing the time. This is a familiar phrase to any one who plays quinto. At 2: 14 the tumba responds by playing offbeats. Here we have then cross-beats answered by offbeats. This is a very hip way to respond on the tumba. You can hear this song at Mark's site:

http://fidelseyeglasses.blogspot.com/20 ... as-el.html

The tumba and segundo can respond to each other, but as I hear variations, they occur mainly within the context of developing the individual part, and more in reaction to changes in the song and dance, rather than to another drum. When played in this fashion, an occasional instance of the tumba responding directly to the segundo, or vice versa, can be very hip because of the effect of surprise.

A lot of us are familiar with the Cuban batá model of drum conversations, where the itótele must immediately respond to the iyá's call. Although that type of call-and-response can be the coolest thing at the right moment in guaguancó, it can easily be overdone, thus making the rumba sound hokey. I would suggest first create a sense of repetition and expectation with your variations; then at the right moment respond to another drum; then return to your groove.
-David
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Re: call & response

Postby windhorse » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:30 pm

davidpenalosa wrote:The tumba and segundo can respond to each other, but as I hear variations, they occur mainly within the context of developing the individual part, and more in reaction to changes in the song and dance, rather than to another drum. When played in this fashion, an occasional instance of the tumba responding directly to the segundo, or vice versa, can be very hip because of the effect of surprise.


Yes,, good stuff!

davidpenalosa wrote:A lot of us are familiar with the Cuban batá model of drum conversations, where the itótele must immediately respond to the iyá's call. Although that type of call-and-response can be the coolest thing at the right moment in guaguancó, it can easily be overdone, thus making the rumba sound hokey. I would suggest first create a sense of repetition and expectation with your variations; then at the right moment respond to another drum; then return to your groove.
-David


Point well taken here.. Our group is still in its infancy and we all of us are guilty of overdoing pretty much anything new that we learn,, as I guess everyone does when they're new and want to practice something to get better. Our main teacher gets annoyed quite often at each of us for overdoing something.. :shock:
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Re: call & response

Postby davidpenalosa » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:05 am

windhorse wrote:. . . we all of us are guilty of overdoing pretty much anything new that we learn,, as I guess everyone does when they're new and want to practice something to get better.


It's how I did it and still do it. I'm not learning new parts as much as I used to, but do I try to always have something new I'm working on. Once I get the pattern, most of the work involves playing it repetitively, so that it can be as natural as possible.
-David
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Re: call & response

Postby Quinto Governor II » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:08 am

davidpenalosa wrote:

The tumba and segundo can respond to each other, but as I hear variations, they occur mainly within the context of developing the individual part, and more in reaction to changes in the song and dance, rather than to another drum. When played in this fashion, an occasional instance of the tumba responding directly to the segundo, or vice versa, can be very hip because of the effect of surprise.


-David


I definitely hear the quinto in relation to the singer rather than a dancer or another drum, even when watching a video, so I follow your thinking in the first part of this statement.
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Re: call & response

Postby davidpenalosa » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:58 pm

Quinto Governor II wrote:I definitely hear the quinto in relation to the singer rather than a dancer or another drum . . .


During the verses the quintero should take care not to draw attention to himself/herself inappropriately by playing too loud or busy. The rhythmic and melodic prowess of the lead singer or gallo is featured prominently during the verses. However, during the verses, the quinto is capable of sublime creativity within its subordinate role. There are natural pauses in the cadence of the verses. The succinct quinto phrases played in the “holes” left by the singer take on particular significance within this context. During the verses the quinto does not demonstrate technical virtuosity so much as taste and restraint.

Once the chorus of the song begins, the phrases of the quinto interact with the dancers more than the gallo. Where cross-phrases are used sparingly during the verses, they tend to be the main mode during the chorus. The quintero must be able to switch phrases immediately in response to the dancer’s ever-changing steps. The vacunao is accented and, in general, the entire quinto vocabulary is used to accompany, inspire and in some ways, compete with the dancer’s spontaneous choreography.
-David
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