Matanzas-style guaguancó

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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:09 pm

I used to play both directions, leading with the right then following with the left, but I've come to prefer leading with the left and following with the right. I really like the feel and sound of the bass before the beat and then on the beat.

In the two example videos, the clave in the Cuban one has the last 3 strokes of the clave almost equidistant from each other, the first example has the last two strokes closer together, exactly as it would be written on paper. My friend described it best as making the clave feel lopsided. Carlos Aldama had a great way of counting the correct Cuban clave: Un-Dos, Un-Dos-Tres, that is grouping the first two strokes together, then grouping the last three strokes together.

As for the drum pattern, in the Cuban example there is a little bit of space between each grouping of HHTT-, which kind of makes each section of HHTT a little bit separate. You can hear in the other example, every stroke is equidistant and no grouping is really distinct from each other.

I really hate that term Spiro uses, "fix". Gah! Sometimes I feel like these abstract intellectual concepts get in the way of intuition and being able to intuitively understand and feel the music.
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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby burke » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:43 pm

Wow! and I do mean WOW!

BSB"s That was the clearest plain language explanation I have ever read of that concept!

I think I have a much better chance of starting to 'get it' having read that.

Many, many thanks

Darrell
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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby Congadelica » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:28 pm

Guaguanco Matancero siempre !!!!! 8)
Last edited by Congadelica on Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby Congadelica » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:33 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frhfc5oo ... re=related
This is one of the young blood of Los Munequitos . and his chapello is smoking , its what I have been taught . thats a pure Guaguanco Matancero as you will get on Tres Dos.

Marco
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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby Congadelica » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:13 pm

And this is how it is meant to sound . pure as driven snow Matancero . :D
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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby jorge » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:24 am

Yes, that is the real sound of guaguanco matancero. The Matanceros call the part golpe or seis por ocho, I haven't heard them call it tres dos. The whole guaguanco is more in 6 than in 4, including the cata, clave, salidor, and seis por ocho. By the way, Marco, that is the same clip I posted the link for yesterday. As far as I know, it is the best demonstration of that part on the internet right now.

BnB, they play it both ways. The young guys, Sandy, Luisito and the late Ivan Alfonso (ibae) all prefer it like you do, with the upbeat basses leading. That way lets you hit the bombo bass with your left hand without breaking the pattern, but it lacks the upbeat swing of the old school style. The older guys, Minini, Agustin, the late Naldo Gobel Villamil (ibae), Enrique Mesa (ibae), Jesus Alfonso (ibae), and Pablo Mesa (ibae), who they credit with inventing that part, all prefer it with a light slap leading the downbeat basses and the open tone. That gives the rhythm an upbeat swing that the other way doesn't. They then carry the bombo on the salidor, not the seis por ocho. It sounds cleaner if one drum accents the bombo, not both, same as running 2 subwoofers out of phase, you can get phase interference that can actually kill the sound rather than enhance it, and it only happens sometimes depending on timing and where you are listening. Part of the "magic" of the drums.
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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby Thomas Altmann » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:04 am

Marco: What exactly is it that is called chapello? The basic movement of BBTT without any open tones?

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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby bongosnotbombs » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:18 am

Well that's very interesting. Of course I learned this style from Sandy, and I've come to like it a lot. I agree it's not so much of an upbeat swing as a kind of falling into the downbeat, maybe a heavier feel, I like it though. I don't see it any big stretch technically in changing the bass note to a light slap, so I think I'll give it some practice and try it out. Nothing wrong with trying something new. Thanks, Jorge.
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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby tamboricua » Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:47 pm

Thomas Altmann wrote:Marco: What exactly is it that is called chapello? The basic movement of BBTT without any open tones?

Thomas


Hi Thomas,

I believe Marco meaned, either "chapeo" or "chapea". Yes, it's that basic movement of BBTT althought I had seen other tone combinations.

Saludos,

JG
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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby Thomas Altmann » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:36 pm

Thank you Jorge! -TA
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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby jorge » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:34 pm

You are welcome Thomas and BnB! Guaguanco Matancero is such a beautiful rhythm when it is played right, and so few people know how to play it (or even tolerate it being played), that it is worth encouraging more people to learn it. Just about everyone in NYC wants to play guaguanco Habana style, it is rare we get 2 or 3 players together at one time who all know how to play Matanzas style. I have always loved that rhythm, and everytime Afrocuba or Los Muñequitos came to NYC, I would get them to show me a little more and tell me a little more of the history. You can figure out a lot by listening carefully to their recordings, then touch base with them when you can and confirm that you got it right.
BnB, it does not have to be only one or the other that you always play, you can play whichever style fits the feeling of the particular song better, the sound is slightly different.
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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby windhorse » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:04 pm

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Re: Matanzas-style guaguancó

Postby burke » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:28 pm

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