Rhythms and Understanding Them

[Anonimo]

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[jorge]

Leedy2,
I like your consistent message that people should know how to play basic rhythms well and am a great supporter of clean rhythm, tumbao con cadencia y afinque sin bulla. In this post, however, I think you are oversimplifying and devaluing a huge contribution of the Cubans to the modern repertoire of rhythms. Of course you are right that there is nothing new in Afrocuban and "latin" rhythms that wasn't played before in Africa, Cuba, Brazil centuries ago. But there are new applications, forms, feelings, sounds of rhythms, and there really are "creators" who develop and popularize new rhythms and become known for them (eg, Jorrin Cha Cha Cha, Pello el Afrokan Mozambique, Changuito/Driggs/Formell/Pedroso Songo).

Songo is the example you chose. Adding the snare and kick drum to son, changui, and the other forms of Cuban popular music of the 60s was not a simple act like you are saying. To say songo is just changui plus rock and roll (go go) is an oversimplification. Of course rock and roll influenced Cuban music of the 60s and later, but there were other more important influences. You do not mention the heavy influence of bata music on this transformation. A key concept of the bata, of the rhythm of several percussion instruments being played and heard as one voice, is very different from the rock and roll you are crediting for the creation of songo. The theory that the "go" came from "go go", ie Van Van, has never been proven and I have my doubts.

Changuito, Joel Driggs (conguero with early Van Van in the 70s), Pupy Pedroso, Juan Formell, and others created a new style, songo, that in my opinion is brilliant, and formed an important part of the foundation of Cuban popular music of the last 40 years. Playing songo requires such a deep understanding of Afrocuban folkloric music that few musicians outside of Cuba have succeeded in learning to play it well, although many have tried.

I don't know what songo you have been listening to, but listen to Tu Tranquilo by los Van Van with Changuito on drums and Joel Driggs on congas (only one conga player here). Joel is playing the 3 parts, tumbador, tres dos, and quinto, based loosely on guaguanco, with some of the tastiest licks I have heard in Cuban music. There is no overdubbing, he is playing all the parts at one time. This is the best clip I could find online. Although the compilation CD came out in 1995 (and may still be available), the vinyl LP came out in the 70s in Cuba.

http://www.yes.fm/musica/Los-Van-Van/Co ... n--Vol--VI

Listen to Guarare by Los Van Van (starts at 5:03 in the longer song Llegue llegue / Guarare de Pastora)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zov3a7bTWWU&NR=1

Changuito has a rhythm going on the bateria unlike anything I had ever heard before that song came out in 1974. Ray Barretto did Guarare a year later in 1975 but the NYC version did not approach the rhythmic beauty and complexity of the Van Van version, although it made a lot more money.

Read the very nice discussion of Los Van Van, Songo, and the roots of Timba on Timba.com with great linked examples of the musical concepts he is discussing (Kevintimba, great site!).

http://www.timba.com/encyclopedia_pages ... os-van-van

Jorge

Edit: fixed Guarare link, clarifications

[JohnnyConga]

Well Songo was created by " Changuito" with Los Van Van...i always thought of the word Songo as a "Son that goes"...but that is my interpretation....one of the TOP Cuban drummers in the 'estilo nuevo' is Calixto Oviedo(Afro-Cuban All Stars), who is being credited with incorporating this 'estilo nuevo" on drumset in a Cuban orchestra...every generation of Cuban musicians brings about a 'new style' of playing and incorporation ....the 80's and 90's Changuito, 2000 2010-now Calixto...Johnny Conga

[davidpenalosa]

1. . . . here you blend both rhythms and what you get is (son+go go music )= songo .Have you created a new rhythm or used rhythm already created ? 2. My opinion is they are inventing with something that has been created before and it's nothing new. 3. refer to book: How to play Latin American Rhythm instruments by Humberto Morales and Henry Adler with supplementary by Ubaldo Nieto,it is a bible of rhythms and if you take from this book and incorporate from one page to other you will see other rhythms how they are created

Hi Leedy,
1. Songo percussion more than anything, was a matter of adopting rumba elements into a band context to an unprecedented degree. It is true that some songo drumset patterns incorporated the backbeat, but the rock n roll component in songo was expressed most overtly by its pop-flavored melodies and harmonies and the onbeat guajeos invented by the Van Van pianist Pupi.

2. Some generalizations are so broad, denying so many specifics, that they offer little insight. Speaking in broad generalities, one could also say that nothing new rhythmically ever came out of Cuba, as it all existed in Africa before Columbus was born.

3. Latin American Rhythm is indeed a bible of rhythms—for the 1958 percussionist. While the book offers a very solid rhythmic foundation, one that today's drummers can surely benefit from, its repertoire is nonetheless dated. Contemporary percussionists are not usually called upon to play a baion, beguine, tango, joropo or paso doble. The material covering the "nanigo" (abakuá) rhythm (pp. 86-89) has very little in common with the actual rhythm of that name. Cuban percussionists today are educated in the authentic folkloric repertoire of their island, which includes abakuá. It would be nearly impossible to play congas in a timba band today without a solid foundation in Afro-Cuban folkloric rhythms, particularly rumba.

Johnny, while we all recognize Changuito's immense contribution, as Kevin mentions in his article (http://www.timba.com/encyclopedia_pages ... os-van-van), Raúl "El Yulo" Cárdenas and Blas Egües were the first percussionists in Los Van Van and they get the credit for creating songo. Changuito is the one who developed it and is, I believe, the one responsible for its world-wide popularity.
-David

[Anonimo]

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[TONE74]

From my experience go go does not mean rock in Cuba. Its more a dance for rock or disco music at least thats how I hear my father describe it from his old days. Rock was just called rock and roll like here in the US...
And as far as being behind then why would people here copy Cuban rhythms and not make up their own up to date stuff. What I did see behind was the styles and trends which arrived a couple of years behind because of Cuba's isolation with the US. I dont really see any inovation here in the US as far as latin music goes. If there is then I would like to know what they are that way I can learn something new.

[davidpenalosa]

1. Son: is more moderate. Changui:is a more aldentete type of son.. . . 2. lets use beguine a rhythm not used as I may understand as you quoted. The rhythm is used today more than ever you may not realize but musicians that play this new rhythm they are calling Bachata is in reality beguine with a new name.

Hi Leedy.
1. There are enough elements unique to both son and changüí, that a strong case can be made for son and changüí each being a separate, distinct genre.

2. The rhythmic similarities between the beguine and bachata do not necessarily prove they are the same genre. Even if you consider them to be one-and-the-same, today's percussionists would not be prepared to play in a NY salsa band, let alone a Cuban band, knowing only the material presented in the time-tested classic that is Latin American Rhythms.
-David

[TONE74]

Does anyone have a musical example of beguine? I'm not familiar with that musical style..

[Anonimo]

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[Anonimo]

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