Old School/Son Tumbao vs. Modern Tumbao

[PRDRconguero]

I was taught the tumbao by a good friend of the family who played professionally many years back. It was the "old school" version where as a righty, your left hand is only doing:

Heel, tip, heel, tip, heel, tip, heel, tip.

Johnny C describes it as a half shuffle in a youtube video (his vids are great by the way).

My right hand would rest on the bearing edge after my slap but is not meant to produce an open tone. My two open tones would follow later. It was referred to as a rest.

I notice that many people play the modern version of tumbao. I have got it down but is it more a matter of preference, or is the old school version "extinct" per se"? I have played with other drummers who have never spoken a bad word about my technique when I play my normal way. On the other hand, I tend to only see the modern tumbao in live performances.

I am a fan of and mostly play to salsa dura of the 60's and 70's.

Thoughts? Thanks.

[roberthelpus]

Can you link us to an example?

[JohnnyConga]

There is a heel tip tumbao(for faster tempos) and a heel tip slap tip heel tip tumbao(traditional)...of course there are many variations with 2 slaps in a more modern version, though it really isnt...Mongo often used 2 slaps in his tumbaos...and so did Patato.
Then there is the heel slap slap tip heel tip tone tone(which is left(heel)left(slap) right(slap))...then there is a tumbao where the slap is displaced, in stead of being on 2 it's on the and of 2..try that one...the tumbao has advanced from one drum to 3 to 5 congas now...so what we play today and the way we play today would be considered of course modern....versus the strict traditional style of the past...any more questions feel free....JC...ps Thank you for your comments on my videos...

[PRDRconguero]

Rob,

A good example is JC's video on Son Tumbao. The only difference with mine is that after the right hand slap, my right hand "rested" on the bering edge instead of creating an open tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGgZZkDBr8g

Once again in the order I played it: (as a righty)

Left - Heel, tip
Right - Slap, Rest
Left - Heel, tip
Right - Open tone, open tone

JC,

I appreciate the input. So it is better used for faster tempos since it is simpler, and the modern/current is more used in normal/slow tempos? I'm all about learning different methods but I wasn't sure about "public opinion" about my particular method. And you're welcome....I see that you figured out that was me on youtube lol. The nicknames are not that different. Thanks.

[bongo]

Ramon Lopez of the Stan Kenton Band played fast Tumbao using what you call old school back in the early 70's. At the time the techique was not considered standard; proper old school Tumbao was taught the other way with the three left hand beats. So Ramon's approach was said to be innovative for speed's sake, not old school.

Guaguanco played by one person on two or three drums has a similar innovation for the fastest speed that creates a nice rolling rhythm. It too has a history dating to the early 70's, probably earlier.

.

[Anonimo]

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[roberthelpus]

I know it's semantics but I try to shy away from saying heel tip, and much prefer to say bass touch.

[bongosnotbombs]

For me, I think heel tip is the more accurate term, describing the manoteo action. A bass can be done as separate stroke and with a different accent, also touches can be done at the edge of the drum in a completely different way than the tip of the manoteo.

[JohnnyConga]

Conga drum hand terminology

Heel(of hand)
Tip(fingers)
Touch(ghost note)
Palm(bass)
Slap(tapao)
Manoteo(the rocking of the heel tip motion of the hand)also known as your "ride" hand
Shuffle( what I say to describe the left hand motion playing in "swing" time on the conga drum)
Fulcrum(the part of the hand between your fingers and your palm)

Here is an ol skool tumbao that is NEVER PLAYED!


heel heel slap slap heel heel tone tone...but when you speed it up you will lose the second slap and there you have your ol skool tumbao...look.. playing changes and evolves with every generation, and of course every generation criticizes the older one and the older criticizes the young...thats life on planet earth...what we need to recognize IMHO is that WE all have something to learn from one another when presented properly with respect and intellect.

I would say to the younger guys here study study study, but learn the right things to study....with books, mentoring, schools, etc...I have spent my life studying the drum and the cultures it has passed thru... nobody ever learns it all in ones lifetime so learn while you can and do it with integrity and humility...respect the drum and the drum will respect you back and reward you. Nuff said from me, anybody else?....

[roberthelpus]

I always liked shuffle myself, but I also call the sound you make by sliding your finger across the head to make it vibrate a zoom zoom

[JohnnyConga]

That zoom zoom you call is also called a 'moose call'....which is a sound a moose actually makes....JC

[JohnnyConga]

I also recognize the fact that with every generation they have a tendency to "re-tag/name" things that already come with a 'tag' ...guys, it has all been done and said before...today it just has another tag to it...JC

[Anonimo]

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR

[RitmoBoricua]

[quote="leedy2Hey JohnnyC Zoom zoom sounds like the Mazda commercial hahahaha [/quote]

With that kind of terminology you can tell your conga player to play some "Boom Boom Zoom Zoom".

Sun Sun Sun, Sun Sun Babae!

[roberthelpus]

Moose call I know, but we don't have a lot of mooses around here. We do have plenty of Mazdases

Meanwhile, the reason why I don't like using "heel" is because too many folks wind up playing them that way - just using the heel of the hand. A lot of people also know better but using that description can reinforce that.

Back on topic: A lot of the techniques above are so obvious once you see them, but not obvious enough for me I guess. So I will work on them.